45acp verus 9mm

Correct....

Cerdan said:
Did your friend document his accident on the web? If so, I saw those pictures of his leg.Gruesome.
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Yep you got it so much for his mail delivery job, although I forget the link, it was quite impressive as to the reality and dedication he put into his www site.

He's the King of Murphy's Law of "Silent Cocking"--> to assemble a pistol with a round in the chamber.

Although some military use the term "Silent Cocking"--> as to assemble in the dark or variants of those handicapping "games"
 
Tartoc said:
I don't usually beleive in Handgiun bullet expansion performance, unless your comparing a FMJ to a Hydra-shock situation....all the rest of the stats is circumstantial detail...for the most part.

Unless! You are using a fragmentation bullet, like .45 ACP Glasers, Hydra-shock, then it 's an ultimate 30% more stopping power...in the ideal average COM shot....

If you use a .22lr Quick-shok 3 way fragmentation, it would not penetrate more than a high powerd BB Rifle...say 6" in ballistic gelatin, wereas all the other .22 calbers will do some 12"-->14"....etc...

I know a IPSC shooter/gunsmith who shot himself with a .45 Hydra-shock....it went through his thigh and nestled in his ankle at point blank muzzle exit.:mad:
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Bullet expansion at velocities under 2000 fps becomes unreliable. Bullet manufacturers attempt to make up for this with large hollow points combined with thin pleated jackets and soft bullet cores. If the hollow cavity becomes plugged it may prevent expansion, but should this occur the effect on the target will be no less severe than that of a FMJ-TC. All in all, if the pistol is to be used in a fight, a hollow point provides the best level of peformance. If it functions correctly it is effective and reduces the danger to anyone beyond the target. If it doesn't function properly, it is still effective.
 
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Artiz said:
9mm para is better than .45acp in almost every circumstances, weight is a thing, but velocity and shot placement is final.


Get hit by a 9mm bullet, I bet you won't want to get another time, a bullet in the chest hurt like hell, .22lr or .45acp
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Yeah, that's a kinda given for the second sentence. The first however I would love to see backed up with facts.


And king66, you cannot rely on your weapon's intimidation alone to save your rump. If someone calls your bluff and you have a little .22LR/short pistol, who's laughing now?
 
Juster, common sense says your not as likely to place a precise shot to stop someone at longer ranges, i.e. 50-75 yards typically the distance where police rifemen have to fire from when they do is you had to use a pistol.
Hence the need for rifles.

M.
 
Artiz said:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=4&t=64943

Originally Posted by Artiz
9mm para is better than .45acp in almost every circumstances, weight is a thing, but velocity and shot placement is final.
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Those links do not prove 9mm is 'better' than .45acp... they only support the 'overpenetration' theory. You don't want your shots to blow through the person entirely or a wall (hopefully not) ... not for CCW anyway.

Oh, and with your sentence, you're saying that a high velocity .22LR bullet would be better than 9mm para? Since velocity and shot placement are 'final' over bullet weight.
 
I never said .22lr is better than 9mm, we are talking about 9mm para and .45acp here.
.22lr can be better for someone who can't handle 9mm or .45, if a person shoots bullseye at 25-35 yards* but can't control 9mm, then the .22lr just blew up the 9mill, at this point it's a personnal preference.
9X19mm is a very effective round, from 115gr to 145gr, it's more used in law enforcement than .45acp, and there is a reason for this, the circumstances where you may need to defend yourself have changes dramatically, rounds now need to go trough car doors, windows, tires, travel longer distances, penetrate light body armor, etc.
The 9x19mm is proven for a long time for it's flatter trajectory, better accuracy in the average hand and pistol(not everybody can control .45acp), better penetration (velocity is key), etc.
There is the in-between of course, wich is the .40S&W, and that round is used by almost 80% of law enforcement agencies, very close to .45acp power and to the 9x19 velocities.
Police officers and average people now have to deal with small to long distance shootings, where the .45acp can't beat the hell out of the 9x19mm, and where the 40S&W finds it's place pretty well.
Another not so old round, the 357sig, basically a 40S&W necked to 9mm, the result being very high velocities, very good energy transfers, etc, that's why it's used by more and more agencies, for it's better overall performances.
If someone feels underpowered by carrying the 9x19mm, he just never got hit by one, get hit by a 9mm bullet, from 5 yards and 30 yards and come talk about it later, your chances of surviving are small, even if you've been hit by the 9mm at 65 yards, where the .45acp would just not do it.
 
The advantage of 9x19 is price.

With modern powder, like Longshot, the velocity of .45ACP is very good.

If you think 45ACP can't hit 65 yard target, talk to my STI 1911 next time.
 
Long live the .45 ACP / 230 gr. ball

Each has its own purpose/application though. For longer engagements 100 yards+, I'd use the 9mm 115 gr. +P JHP/FMJ which is lighter and faster (around 1350 fps). For "up close and personal" I'd go with the .45 Auto 230 gr. Federal Hyda-Shock JHP.
 
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michaelsabre said:
The advantage of 9x19 is price.

With modern powder, like Longshot, the velocity of .45ACP is very good.

If you think 45ACP can't hit 65 yard target, talk to my STI 1911 next time.
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The accuracy potential of handguns is largely underestimated.

Anyone who says they can't hit accurately at distances should offer to put their grandma's antique heirloom bone china out at 100 yards and let me plink at it with a .38 snubbie..... :p
 
At the range, I always see guys shooting hi-end/accurate handguns at 10 yards...wtf I say to myself. Practice makes perfect, and you gotta start off somewhere, but these guys have been shooting for years.

Handguns have more reach than people think. 25-50 yards very accurate, 50 yards all 10 rounds center mass. Shooting prone/bench rest or resting on the hood of a car you can "walk in" your rounds at 100-200 yards with a spotter using B-Knocks. One guy stated that he hit a gong at 300 yards with a .45 Auto, and I wouldn't doubt it.
 
Pietro Beretta said:
At the range, I always see guys shooting hi-end/accurate handguns at 10 yards...wtf I say to myself. Practice makes perfect, and you gotta start off somewhere, but these guys have been shooting for years.

Handguns have more reach than people think. 25-50 yards very accurate, 50 yards all 10 rounds center mass. Shooting prone/bench rest or resting on the hood of a car you can "walk in" your rounds at 100-200 yards with a spotter using B-Knocks. One guy stated that he hit a gong at 300 yards with a .45 Auto, and I wouldn't doubt it.
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i've done 250 yards with a black powder revolver( old army) offhand- we were firing at milk jugs filled with water- 250 yards out( lazered) and i was using 44( all i had) cal minis- i should have been using 45's - there"s well documented stories of cavalry soldiers using their 45 colts out to 400 yards, so i wouldn't put it past any well-practised pistoleer- at some police games a few years back one of the contestants had his primary go south on him( bolt gun), transitioned to his 92 beretta 9mm and made the shot at 250 yards
 
Artiz said:
I never said .22lr is better than 9mm, we are talking about 9mm para and .45acp here.
.22lr can be better for someone who can't handle 9mm or .45, if a person shoots bullseye at 25-35 yards* but can't control 9mm, then the .22lr just blew up the 9mill, at this point it's a personnal preference.
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Ok, and a BB up your @ss and a can of beans could be good for someone who cannot grip a pistol... where are you going with this?

Artiz said:
9X19mm is a very effective round, from 115gr to 145gr, it's more used in law enforcement than .45acp, and there is a reason for this, the circumstances where you may need to defend yourself have changes dramatically, rounds now need to go trough car doors, windows, tires, travel longer distances, penetrate light body armor, etc.
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Umm no. 9mm is becoming more popular with law enforcement because of mag capacities and smaller gripsizes, not because of it's penetration capacity. There are federal agencies that still use the .45acp round.

As for shooting through objects, I would hope law enforcement would have clear shots before taking them. Kinda dangerous to shoot a guy you can't see, possibly risking the lives of others, dontcha think?

Oh, and with anything 'long distance' I'd be surprised to see LEO's take with sidearms.

Artiz said:
If someone feels underpowered by carrying the 9x19mm, he just never got hit by one, get hit by a 9mm bullet, from 5 yards and 30 yards and come talk about it later, your chances of surviving are small, even if you've been hit by the 9mm at 65 yards, where the .45acp would just not do it.
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Yeah, stand at 65 yards and we'll see how much a .45acp stings... if we can get enough blood packs out to you fast enough. If you think you can't get a lethal load out to this distance, you're full of it!

This again is a ridiculous argument. Sure, I can rephrase it;

"If someone feels underpowered by carrying a crossman pellet pistol, he just never got hit by one." Get hit by a .177 pellet travelling at 500+fps and come talk about it later.

We know bullets make holes. If the .45acp is such an ineffective round as you say it is, I'm curious to know why it is so popular among all shooters.

Provide actual proof that shows the 9mm para is superior in all aspects to .45acp and perhaps you might be going somewhere. To just say .45acp sucks compared to 9mm and list a bunch of crapola off the top of your head is bananas, son.
 
OMG, when did I say .45acp sucks? Never, I never said 9mm is superior in every way, I'm just defending the fact that 9mm is a very efective round and should not be under-estimated compared to .45acp.
If you think I think the .45 sucks, you are dead out of the track.
If you think your helpless arguments affect me, or anyone here, you are also totally wrong.
I like the .45acp, oh wow I said that? Yes, I said that, WHY?
Because, it's a very good round that is proven for decades, and is always used a lot, like the 9mm, and always has it's place in the shooting world.
9mm is not superior to .45acp in all aspects, nor is the .45acp superior to the 9mm in all aspects. Now calm down and stop involving your "you're totally wrong and I'm right", you are a noob you are nothing here, stfu or I'll spit on you, son.
I'm not your son.
The thread is 9mm COMPARED to .45acp, I'm actually COMPARING IT, I'm involving proofs, I'm not comparing .45acp to a BB pistol, I'm not talking to other guys like ####, I'm not you, no.
P.S, I want to get a .45acp pistol for a long time, that's curious, I'm supposed to be a 9mm lover and anything else hater... oh no sorry, it's your vision of other people, that is don't ####ing cared by anybody.
Thanks.
 
Artiz,

You should order an 1911. First hand experience makes Internet argument unnecessary.

If you are not in mood of big investment, just try the new Police model Norc. You can't go wrong with that kind of deal.

Then we talk!
 
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