FFF powder in .45 and larger rifles?

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goldidig

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Guys, I have a newbie black powder question for y'all. Last year when I was just starting into blackpowder shooting, I had a seller at a gun show sell me some Goex FFF to use as priming powder for my older flinter Lyman ( Pedersoli) .45. trade rifle. He told me I could use it for both loading and priming. I did some research when I got home and found it was used as priming powder in a pinch but not used as a standard loading powder. I then ordered some 777 and have been using that for shooting ever since. Well, to make a long story short , it worked poorly as a priming powder( twice as slow ignition as it is with 4F) and I stopped using it. I since picked up some 4F which works like it's supposed to as a priming powder. I have been using Hodgdon 777 in all my black powder rifles including the flinty but was wondering if I can safely use reduced loads of FFF to burn up that powder at the range. I am currently shooting a 50 grain load of 777 in that rifle and other than a very slight and barely noticeable delay in ignition it works great and is very clean. I have never fired real black powder in that particular rifle and from what I have read here is that very slight delay is not abnormal with a flinty anyway? Please correct me if I'm wrong. The manufacturer recommends a minimum load of 31 grains to a maximum of 90 grains of FF black powder. I have seen some load data on the web where guys are using smaller grain loads of FFF instead of FF in .45 and larger bore rifles but thought I'd play it safe and ask some of you guys before attempting it. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Al
 
In the old .45 I used 60g of FFF and a patched round ball worked great. FFF also works in my .54 Trade rifle , and I used it in my .50 flinter, as primer and main charge. You have to cut your charge by about 10% from 2f, but I find it works just as good and leaves less fouling.
 
Well, your Triple 7 would likely give much higher pressures than any black powder of any granulation except for 4F. I don't use T7 at all for this reason but then I am relaoding for historic black powder cartridge rifles and prefer to use what was intended for them. I do use Pyrodex pellets in my modern in-line muzzle-loader but would not use T7 as it operates at higher pressures and is a dog to clean after a few shots. Typically .45" calibers and larger use 2F and 1F BP only. Due to the smaller ganules the 3F gives almost instant total combustion and therefore higher pressures. You may get away with reduced loads and normal loads in modern M/L's with 3F but that is your choice. It's done all the time but not in my M/L's. Using T7 in a flintlock? Again...not me! You will notice a lessening of the lag time if using powder intended to be used in Flintlocks....BP. Dave
 
goldidig
I do not know who told you that FFF was not used as a standard charge but it is. I use FFF in .45 and .50 cal rifles and 100grn charges with conicals, in the .54-12ga guns I use FF. As to using it as a priming powder FFF is less than ideal but will work.

Dantforth
777 does run higher pressures but I cannot understand why you would have more trouble cleaning your gun than with black powder as 777 burns way cleaner than any black powder and cleans with water only.
Regards
 
Thanks for the advice guys. Dave, I'll be sure to try some regular black powder in the flintlock. Someone else also told me to try a small charge of BP down the spout first with a finishing of the load in T7 but that seems to be a real extra pain in the patookey to do and I have to confess I am a bit concerned about making a bad mistake and destroying one of my nice guns or worse yet, hurting myself or anyone else. As for T7 being dirty, I have never seen any problems with any of my guns using it. I have fired 15 to 25 shots at the range with my Traditions Buckhunter inline converted to 209 ignition, using T7 and had NO cleaning issues. NO cleaning between shots at all was required. Same with the flintlock. It really didn't seem to be any dirtier after that many shots than after 2 or 3 and the consistent accuracy was excellent. My inline shoots my home cast 240 grain .45's in a Hornady black sabot over 80 grains of T7 at 2 inch groups at 100 yards as long as I have desired to load and fire. The cleanup was a breeze using just hot soapy water as well and a lot less smoke than any black powder I saw being used. I haven't tried Pyrodex yet and after such good results with T7 I probably won't bother. I probably only burn up 2 or 3 pounds of powder in a whole year anyway so the cost difference doesn't ammount to that much for me.
 
Thanks Doubleman, Good to hear that.I guess I have been getting a bit of wrong info. I knew I should have posted this question here a while back. Like you, I find T7 cleanup is a breeze and virtually no fouling.
Al
 
I use 2F or 3F as a main charge (depends what I have on hand)...and prime with 4F (just cause I bought a lb of it, and I think it will last a long time).
And good advice to keep the primer charge away from the touch-hole. :)
 
Thanks guys. I have to say I was filling the pan on my flintlock right to the touch hole. I'm anxious to get out shooting again and try some of your suggestions now.
Al
 
Guys, I just got back from the range. I fired the .45 flintlock trade rifle with MUCH better results thanks to the advice you guys posted. I used 40 grains of FFF Goex , patched ball and 4F powder for priming. I only half filled the flash pan and left the priming charge to the far side away from the ignition orifice. Ignition was virtually instant with hardly any flash to distract me while shooting. Definitely a lot more fun and much more accurate. No problem at all to put everything in 1.5 to 2 inch groups at 60 yards, shooting from a rest. The fouling wasn't bad at all either. Thank you so much for the help!
Al
 
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Sounds like you have it shooting as it was intended. Good work.
I'm surprised to hear you were having even limmited success with T7 in a flinter.
BTW fffg is fine in your lyman. You don't have to worry about 'reduced loads'.
 
goldidig said:
Thanks guys. I have to say I was filling the pan on my flintlock right to the touch hole. I'm anxious to get out shooting again and try some of your suggestions now.
Al
Click to expand...

Dig around on youtube, and check out the slow motion close-ups of the flintlock firing sequence that are out there.

IIRC, one of the guys here posted a link to the site where they, and the write-ups that explained the set-ups, were posted at.

It really becomes clear, that the idea is to use the flash of the powder in the pan to ignite the main charge, rather than to ignite the pan charge, and have it burn it's way in to the main charge.

It's real easy to see it all happen in slow motion!

Cheers
Trev
 
I was watching the vids on Youtube. Explains a lot. Actually smokepole, the 777 ignited just fine just with the delay problem. I think most of the delay was my priming method. I'll try it again sometime now that I am priming properly to see what happens and I'll let you know the results.
 
Well, I was back at the range again today with some other rifles Smokepole, and I took the flintlock along again as well. 777 is definitely not suitable for my flintlock. It will work but only if you fill the pan with FFFFG and then there is a long delay. Using a normal, small priming charge it will not ignite.
Al
 
Yes siree Smokepole! I love shooting black powder! I have more fun using my muzzle loaders than all the other guns I have used over the years. If I would have known it was this much fun, I'd have been into it years ago. GRIN Thanks again for all the advice guys.
Al
 
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