45acp verus 9mm

Artiz said:
Yeah lack of maturity, riiiight.
Reading more than 500 data and review pages on the .45 caliber rounds isn't enough, because I'm such a noob as I haven't shot any .45acp yet, so I'm gonna chill out (I probably need to, 'cuz I'm SO pissed right now, right?).
To actually SEE and KNOW what a .45acp round can and cannot do, I just have to sit down near the back stop of that range and see what this bullet can do IN REAL AWESOME TIME to that steel plate and to that ballistic gel bloc I'm holding right now.
I try to use common sense, maybe I just FAILED this time and should read 500 more proven and official reviews on "real world" ballistic results.
Thanks my mind just opened to a new world right now, ah that feels so good.
Stop blaming others without actually knowing who you are talking to and WHAT they actually know by spending years on research.
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Yeah, that's just like someone reading a bunch of 'how to be a plumber' manuals... then going and running some pipe.

Oh, and ballistics in gel don't mean jack. It's very different than flesh, bullets behave much different. Keep reading your reports.

Oh, and be sure to check out Chuck Taylor's website :
http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/questionsandanswers.html

Your claims kinda contradict what this man has to say... and I'm sure he's plenty of expert knowledge with realistic applications of 9mm and .45acp as well as a variety of other rounds.

Q: As a police officer, due to department policy, I was always required to carry a revolver. So, the debate in the gun magazines about the 9mmP versus the .45 ACP, while it made interesting reading, didn't affect me.

Now, I can carry an auto and through the years, I've pretty much agreed with you -- that the .45 auto was best. But recently, a couple of writers have claimed the equality of the 9mmP with "new" bullets and loads, even claiming actual studies of their own to back up their claims. What gives?

As a lawman, I want to stop the trouble before it stops me -- as quickly as possible. Is there any truth to these claims?
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A: You're not the only one who is confused at the current goings-on. However, a careful analysis of the issue will give you the perspective you're looking for. As for me, I give those so-called "studies" little credence because they defy the laws of physics and use irrelevant definitions of the terms, "One-shot Stop," and, "Hit Placement" to tie together their otherwise meaningless statistical data. This by the way,is an opinion shared by many ballistitions and forensic pathologists.
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Waiiiiit a minute... those expert terms ring a bell.. I'm sure I read those or similar before... :)

You whining about your 'reports' and 'misinformation' sorta reminds me of the antis fighting against us... unable to provide first hand proof but skewing and providing illogical 'facts'.

Please, don't tell me you know more than Chuck Taylor now... :rolleyes:
 
mackattack said:
http://w ww.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

Interesting stuff here. Maybe a little outdated but seems the 9mm JHP +P is not too shabby at all. Remember, some US troops might prefer .45 over the 9mm, but they have to use FMJ ammo.
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Like Chuck Taylor said as he gave preference to the .45acp round. It doesn't need to rely on hollowpoint rounds to make decent holes, meanwhile hollowpoints have many issues... expansion isn't guarenteed and the hollow cavity can be filled with clothing etc to screw expansion. Nothing wrong with FMJ ammo in a .45 auto pistol :)
 
OK I have a question.

Why are modern defense rounds designed to stay intact and mushroom? Exploding rounds such as a really fast SJHP 357 have more stopping power?

Aren't bigger wound channels better?

This would mean that a 1400 fps 115 grain 9mm JHP has more stopping power than a 800 fps 230 grain .45acp JHP.

Doctors would have trouble getting all the 9mm fragments out if they didn't die, causing lots of bleeding.

Whereas the .45 is a solid mushroom.

Any ideas?
 
I recall a Canadian court case where a guy was shot in the chest by a 25 ACP. It was self-defense type of shooting and I think the shooter got off.

Anyway, part of the testimony was that the bullet hit a major artery (aorta, maybe?) and the doctor said that had he been shot in a major hospital operating room with a team of doctors waiting, he could not have been saved.

In other words SHOT PLACEMENT!!!!
 
GANDERITE said:
I recall a Canadian court case where a guy was shot in the chest by a 25 ACP. It was self-defense type of shooting and I think the shooter got off.

Anyway, part of the testimony was that the bullet hit a major artery (aorta, maybe?) and the doctor said that had he been shot in a major hospital operating room with a team of doctors waiting, he could not have been saved.

In other words SHOT PLACEMENT!!!!
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Ya and kids got killed with low powered pellet/bb guns... what's your point?

You mean to tell me, if you've got your sights on someone that you're gonna nail him in a major artery and then he's down like a sack of spuds?


To reiterate a post I made earlier
Quote:
Q: As a police officer, due to department policy, I was always required to carry a revolver. So, the debate in the gun magazines about the 9mmP versus the .45 ACP, while it made interesting reading, didn't affect me.

Now, I can carry an auto and through the years, I've pretty much agreed with you -- that the .45 auto was best. But recently, a couple of writers have claimed the equality of the 9mmP with "new" bullets and loads, even claiming actual studies of their own to back up their claims. What gives?

As a lawman, I want to stop the trouble before it stops me -- as quickly as possible. Is there any truth to these claims?
Quote:
A: You're not the only one who is confused at the current goings-on. However, a careful analysis of the issue will give you the perspective you're looking for. As for me, I give those so-called "studies" little credence because they defy the laws of physics and use irrelevant definitions of the terms, "One-shot Stop," and, "Hit Placement" to tie together their otherwise meaningless statistical data. This by the way,is an opinion shared by many ballistitions and forensic pathologists.
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Freak instances cannot speak for the majority, in any case. At best you'll hope you hit your target, let alone a particular artery...
 
.....

correctccwpermit.jpg


There, I win.
 
I always laughed when i hear shot placement and pistols.

Credibly the pistol is given 8 METERS effective range in times of duress to HIT A MAN SIZED TARGET...

NEVERMIND the INTERNET HANDGUN SNIPER COMMANDOS that are Miracle shots and hitting nerves and arteries.

Real world experience has told us you're barely likely to even hit that guy unless he's 8m in your face.

Internet experience has told us to snipe his major artery at 25meters and you're stupid for thinking otherwise.
 
Chuck3436 said:
I always laughed when i hear shot placement and pistols.

Credibly the pistol is given 8 METERS effective range in times of duress to HIT A MAN SIZED TARGET...

NEVERMIND the INTERNET HANDGUN SNIPER COMMANDOS that are Miracle shots and hitting nerves and arteries.

Real world experience has told us you're barely likely to even hit that guy unless he's 8m in your face.

Internet experience has told us to snipe his major artery at 25meters and you're stupid for thinking otherwise.
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i for one prefer to 'TAKE THE HEAD CLEAN OFF WITH A 44 MAG"- that way it don't matter what you hit
 
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