Blackhawk SERPA users: Tactical Response safety concerns?

drvrage

drvrage

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I purchased a blackhawk SERPA CQC holster for a SIG P220 DA/SA.

I was looking up Tactical Response's site for training info and I found the following:

Why no Serpa holsters?
An answer from our friend Paul Gomez: “Over the last year, I have developed some serious concerns with the Blackhawk Serpa Active Retention holster design. Various persons have brought these concerns to the attention of Blackhawk on several occasions and Blackhawk has chosen to ignore these very real issues.

The ‘Serpa Active Retention’ design consists of a plastic L-shaped component which functions as the release button [from the outside of the holster] and as the lock [which engages inside the trigger guard]. The short leg of the L-shaped lever pivots inward [toward the pistol], while the locking tab pivots outward to release the pistol from the holster.

According to the Blackhawk website, ”The release is made using your normal drawing motion, with the trigger finger beside the holster body. … As your trigger finger naturally comes to rest on the SERPA lock’s release mechanism, simply push the mechanism as you draw the weapon and it releases the gun for a smooth, fast draw.”

While Blackhawk may intend for the end-user to apply inboard pressure with the flat of the index finger, under stress, shooters tend to push the button with the tip of their index finger. After all, this is the manner in which most people have the most repetitions pushing buttons such as keys on a keypad or phone or ringing doorbells. When the finger pushes in on the release button and the user initiates the upward motion of the draw stroke, the finger tends to stay in motion and as the trigger guard clears the holster, the finger enters the trigger guard and contacts the trigger, with possibly tragic results.

I am aware of two instances where trained personnel have shot themselves using this holster in conjunction with Glock pistols. In August of 2004, a situation occurred with a live weapon that resulted in the shooter losing a 10cm piece of her femur. The other occurred with nonlethal training ammunitions in a force-on-force event in April of 2005. The impact of the NLTA was in the same area as the actual gunshot wound previously mentioned.

Following each of these events, Blackhawk was contacted and advised of the problems observed and concerns raised. In the first instance, they claimed that they were unaware of any previous issues with the design and insisted that the design had been ‘thoroughly tested by law enforcement and military personnel’.

After the second event, they were contacted by at least two people. Again, they stated that they were unaware of any concerns and had heard nothing similar from any sources.”
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They did not say anything about the guns involved in the accidents. Were they SA or DA/SA or DAO. They did mention one Glock with a safety trigger, but not much else.

Is anyone aware of any other incidents with SERPA holsters? IDPA guys, IPSC guys, CCW guys, Military guys? I bought based on recommendations from CGN'ers, but I fear I may have made a mistakeas I would like to start IPSC, PPC and IDPA. More over once i get my finances in better order, I would very much like to take the Tactical Response Training. Comments on the holster?
 
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I ran a Serpa for my G17 for about a year and a half. I've never understood this safety concern. Ever holster I own results in my finger being in the same spot when I draw as on the Serpa. If you shoot yourself with a Serpa, you'd probably have done it with any holster.

That said, I believe there are much better holsters than the Serpa. The Serpa construction is not very substantial and the locking mechanism is easily jammed. I'm running Safariland and Blade-tech holsters now.

Don't let buying a $25 Uncle Mike's kydex to replace your Serpa stop you from taking the classes.
 
I know of a cop who discharged his gun while drawing from a safariland duty holster, (fortunately no one was hit) it could happen with any design.

I have seen that article posted several times (on various sites) over the past several years, it has been disputed.
 
Stevo said:
Don't let buying a $25 Uncle Mike's kydex to replace your Serpa stop you from taking the classes.
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Bwahahaha. Not likely the $25 holster, just the $650 in ammo, the $400 course and any associated travel and lodging costs. I figure the trip will likely cost me about 3k all in. I won't be able to pull that money together with the wife's approval for a couple of years. Kitchen renos, basement renos, new furniture and bedroom set and all new appliances first. Dang. I need a 2nd job.
 
drvrage said:
I purchased a blackhawk SERPA CQC holster for a SIG P220 DA/SA.

I was looking up Tactical Response's site for training info and I found the following:

They did not say anything about the guns involved in the accidents. Were they SA or DA/SA or DAO. They did mention one Glock with a safety trigger, but not much else.

Is anyone aware of any other incidents with SERPA holsters? IDPA guys, IPSC guys, CCW guys, Military guys? I bought based on recommendations from CGN'ers, but I fear I may have made a mistakeas I would like to start IPSC, PPC and IDPA. More over once i get my finances in better order, I would very much like to take the Tactical Response Training. Comments on the holster?
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Other then being a bit of a tight fit for my Sig Elite... I have never had my finger slip into the trigger guard on draw.
 
I have absolutely no problems with the two I own for my Beretta 96D and my HK USP Compact Tactical. SERPA holsters are THE best positive-retention devices I've seen, with a nicely adjustable passive retention screw, and I agree with what's been said about the likelihood of shooting oneself when using a SERPA - if you're going to shoot yourself with a SERPA, you're going to shoot yourself with any other holster.

I wouldn't want to use one were I in a 'duty carry' situation as a police officer, however - I'd prefer the Safariland "flip" designs to allow escalation of readiness without full draw. With a SERPA, you've got two options - full-off or full-on.

Also, it should be noted that the SERPA finger mechanism will clog beyond all immediate recoverability if you're forced to dive holster-down into sand or mud - possibly even snow, though I haven't tried it just yet. The grit wedges the mechanism and you're hooped. But for good, positive retention in all "clean" scenarios, I love mine.

-M
 
Farmboy said:
I've sold tons of them to guys going overseas. No issues at all.
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This sounds reassuring. Thanks. But...

But did they bring them overseas? Or did they buy them for IPSC and leave them in a range box until they got back?
 
Utter nonsense, the serpa is completly safe, your trigger finger is in the same position as with any other holster.
 
They could design the release to reduce the grit entrapment hazard. I have 4 Serpa and love them, although to be fair I am not diving into the mud either. I note that the design differs slightly for each pistol, I like the one for the M&P the best. When I talked to Blackhawk at SHOT, they are really interested in constructive feedback and were already redesigning their Sig229 holster due to the things I had observed as well.
 
I use the SERPA for both my 1911 and XD for IPSC. I read the safety warning but haven't had any trouble at all. Since you have to practice your draw for IPSC, I've been trying to notice as much as I can where the finger goes no matter how you press the button. Although it's a bit harder to make a mental note of this during a match, I have noticed the same results. The same for "mini matches" on practice nites.

Each and every time on both models of guns, my trigger finger always comes to the proper place, on the frame above the opening. Actually, right on the slide stop pin on the 1911 to be exact, and close to that on the XD.

I wouldn't worry about it and just use the one for your SIG. It should be the same location.
 
I use one for my 1911C with no issues. I find my finger ends up in the exact same place with my Gould and Goodrich Level 2 duty pistol rig for the M&P. The two could not be less similar, but the result is the same.
 
Lfsabch said:
so its mainly accidental discharge because of your finger, not because the holster lock hits the trigger?
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Correct. They say that if you curl your finger and use the tip to press the latch instead of using the finger pad, you're likely to stab it into the trigger guard and cause an ND.
 
I dunno - Sounds like bad practice to me, rather than a holster flaw. It took me some doing to get used to using my index finger on the Serpa, because it was so BAD BAD BAD BAD! to have any pressure from my index near the pistol while drawing. Eventually, I realized that my finger ended up on the frame, or even up on the slide, so I got over my instinctive inability to operate the index finger button.

Like anything, you have to practice properly, to develop proper habits. Someone capable of putting their index finger inside the trigger guard before the sights are on target, is capable of doing the same with ANY holster, I think.
 
Stevo said:
Correct. They say that if you curl your finger and use the tip to press the latch instead of using the finger pad, you're likely to stab it into the trigger guard and cause an ND.
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So you'd have the gun out far enough that you could get a finger into the trigger guard to reach the trigger AND accidently stab with however much pressure your firearm requires for the first shot. (Assuming it has no manual safety) ... ya right. Whomever used that story was really reaching to get out of a ND.
 
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