Kaboom in Glocks

S

Sig_1959

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
EE Expired
Rating - 96.8%
30   1   0
Location
Ontario
h ttp://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

Please have a look at the link. There are Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarifying a controversial subject…

Glock kB! FAQ v1.35
Examining the catastrophic failures in a popular pistol

What is a kB!?
What causes a kB!?
Which Glock models are affected?
Why does a kB! occur in these Glock models?
Do kB!s occur in other guns or just Glocks?
What is the relationship between reloads and kB!s?
What can I do to prevent a kB!?
If I insist on reloading for my .40-something Glock anyway, what can I do to minimize the chance of a kB!?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is a kB!?
Coined by firearms journalist Dean Speir, kB! is shorthand for "kaBOOM!," which is the written representation of what happens when one has a catastrophic explosive event in one's Glock. (See also Sidebar Addendum.)

What causes a kB!?
Catastrophic failures may be caused by a variety of problems, but in general a kB! is as a result of a case failure. The case failure occurs when pressure inside the cartridge increases to the point that it cannot be contained by the case and the material of the case fails, allowing hot gases to escape from the ruptured case web at damagingly high velocities. The resulting uncontained forces can blow the magazine out of the gun, destroy the locking block, cause the tip of the trigger to be snipped off, ruin the trigger bar, rupture the barrel, peel the forward edge of the slide at the ejection port up, and do other nasty things. In general, Glocks tend to contain case failures fairly well, but under some circumstances they can cause injury as well as damage to one's gun. At least one Federal LEO has been injured in a kB! involving a Glock 21 and a Winchester factory overcharge. Additionally, there is some evidence of there being another cause of a kB!… a barrel failure caused by improper metallurgy.

Which Glock models are affected?
Speir has documented many instances of kB!s, all of them in the Models 20 and 30-something Glock (.40 S&W, 10mm and .45 ACP). And since the introduction of the Models 30-through-36, there have been incidents of kB!s in the 357 SIG (Models 31, 32 and 33) and the .45 ACP (Models 30 and 36) pistols as well… all with reloaded or remanufactured rounds by most accounts.

And until February 2004. Speir had no (as in zero!) confirmed cases of Glock kB!s in the 9 x 19mm (Models 17, 17L, 18, 19, 26 and 34, although there has been one such reasonably detailed anecdotal report), or the .380 ACP/9 X 17mm (Models 25 and 28). Then came the following from Todd Louis Green:

At the S&W IDPA Winter Championship this past Saturday (28 February) I personally saw a Glock Model 34 with its barrel split top from bottom all the way through the breech. The kB! occurred in front of many witnesses. The shooter was using factory PMC practice ammo.

I had my Canon D10 with me but felt it would have appeared unprofessional to ask for some photos or try to get contact info for the owner.

Anyway, that's the first 9 x 19mm Glock kB! I've ever seen, and with factory ammo no less!
And that is the first confirmed… a second source reported this as well… 9 x 19mm Glock kB!. And in January 2005, a second one has been reported as well.
Why do kB!s occur in these Glock models?
Reports compiled by Speir from various independent laboratories are inconclusive as to one single cause for the catastrophic failures.

There do, however, appear to be several contributing factors which collectively may induce catastrophic case failures:


Firing out of battery. Most Glocks will do this to some degree, especially those improperly maintained.
Significantly overpressure rounds. These occur mostly in homemade reloads or in commercially remanufactured ammunition, but have occurred in factory ammunition as well.

Lack of full case support in the critical area over the feed ramp of all large caliber (.40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP) Glock pistols. [See Annotation #5]

Ostensibly as a measure to promote feed reliability, Glock chamber mouths are slightly oversized. One can test this by removing the barrel from the Glock, dropping a factory round into the chamber, and observing that there is brass exposed at the six o'clock position. Take a fired case and note that there is a slight engraving if not actual bulge around the case web, which is most pronounced in the area of the case which, upon firing, was in the six-o'clock position.
Use of personally reloaded or commercially remanufactured ammunition utilizing cartridge cases of indeterminable generation. Unlike most rifle handloaders, those who reload for handguns do not as a habit segment their fired cases by generation, and each time a case is re-sized for reloading, the brass "works" and weakens through enbrittlement.

kB!s have been documented with factory ammunition, but most of them occur with either commercial or homemade reloads.

Do kB!s occur in other guns or just in Glocks?
kB!s do, of course, occur in other guns, but no one appears to be keeping accurate statistics for most of them. Many 1911-style handguns have partially unsupported case mouths, and numerous case separations have occurred in these guns. Early .38 Super barrels were particularly susceptible, and the critical observer may have noticed the predilection among USPSA .38 Super competitors for full beards in an attempt to cloak the vestiages of what came to be known as "super face."

Respected firearms author Frank James, in 1994, documented a number of kB!s in HK USP .40 pistols, which do have fully supported chambers. (Also see this!)
What is the relationship between reloads and kB!s?
Most kB!s occur with commercially remanufactured or personally reloaded ammunition.

Successive re-sizing and firing of a case result in eventual weakening of the brass, increasing the probability of case failure. The partially unsupported chamber in the Glock exacerbates this problem.

"Hard crimping" or overseating of bullets, particularly in the .40 S&W, can cause dramatic increases in pressure almost to the same degree as a propellant overcharge. [See Annotation #3] Either alone or in combination with a weakened case, these factors can result in a kB!

Some people have also postulated a relationship between the use of cast lead bullets and kB!, arguing that buildup of lead in the chamber can lead to pressure buildups as well. The jury seems to be out on this one as a direct causation, but lead build-up will sometimes cause a round to not fully chamber, and as Glocks can discharge with the action not completely locked up ("out of battery," [see Annotation #4]), this can lead to a catastrophic failure.
What can I do to prevent a kB!?

Shoot only new factory ammunition out of your Glock. This is what Glock, Inc. recommends, as do several members of Glock-L. Shooting reloads voids your factory warranty.

Install a barrel with a fully supported chamber. Custom barrel makers include Bar-Sto Precision Machine and…

Briley Manufacturing
Jarvis Precision
Wilson Combat
…but as can be seen in the adjacent image, even this is not fool-proof if a Glock shooter is determined to over-charge a round!
Avoid wherever possible .40 S&W ammunition manufactured by Federal Cartridge Company prior to November 1995. For related data, see Annotation #2, a part of this FAQ.
At an October 1996 G.S.S.F. match on Long Island, one competitor with a Model 22 had simply switched to a .40 S&W Sigma barrel which he averred not only better allowed him to shoot lead because of the conventional rifling, but that the fully supported Sigma chamber significantly decreased the opportunities for a kB!

Note: This procedure is neither recommended nor authorized by Glock, Inc. or Glock Ges.m.b.H.

If I insist on reloading for my 357 SIG or .40-something Glock, what can I do to minimize the chances of a kB!?

Install a custom barrel. See 7B.
Keep careful track of your brass. Load "Major Power Factor" loads only in new brass. Don't use range pickups. Don't shoot "hot loads" from used brass. Discard used brass sooner than you would normally.
Use calipers or case gauges to keep your reloads within spec. Check for excessive bulging in the case web and make sure your bullets are seated to the correct length. Also check for excessive case thinning or bulging.

The propellant AA#5 [See Annotation #1] has been identified in a disproportionate number of kB!s, not only in Glocks but USP40s with barrels which do provide full case support. A number of Glock-L members have reported kB!s involving this propellant. It is not clear whether these kB!s are the fault of the propellant or the reloader, but it is clear that they are occurring in disproportionate numbers. As early as Fall '92 a source inside Glock, Inc. told Speir on background: "A lot of the blown up Models 22 and 23 we've been seeing has involved Accurate Arms #5… and damned if we know why."
 
wow
i will defenatley think twice about shooting reloads...
i cant believe the one instructor has seen 5 of these instances with factory ammo... not ideal.
 
I'm not even a Glock fan but I would take this info with a grain of salt. If this were a real issue, wouldn't the millions in Police service have had issues by now?
 
i really dont like these threads, makes me second guess my glock, especially now that i did the trigger and it doesnt rack as smoothly as before. im paranoid it will become part of this post accompanied with pics of destruction
 
ajayofcanada said:
I'm not even a Glock fan but I would take this info with a grain of salt. If this were a real issue, wouldn't the millions in Police service have had issues by now?
Click to expand...



LE departments are not allowed to use reload as far as Canada goes; not sure of USA.


My personal encounters

Incident #1

It happened to me a little more than a year ago with a Glock 27 exploded in my hand. I was victimized by a negligent reloader. The fortunate part was that wasn't my gun and the burst only left a dime size blister at the root of my trigger finger.

The full story was that while shooting at our local club, a fellow member had a Glock 27 (.40 S&W sub compact) and was eager to have me try it. I wasn't so eager because I can't even fit my hand on that small thing and let alone hold it properly.

Satisfying his eagerness, I took the G27 and fired. The first few shots felt kind of hot for a .40 S&W. Then, on the fifth shot, the gun exploded. The jolt was startling. The next thing running through my mind was "does my hand still exist?" As told earlier in this post, my hand, fortunately, only suffered a blister.

The inquisitive side of me wanted to get to the bottom of the incident. I studied the remains of the G27 and found:

  • Barrel and slide were intact.
  • Frame cracked near trigger.
  • Trigger blown to pieces.
  • Mag release blown out (into my palm).
  • Magazine shot to the ground and floor plate disintegrated, spring and follower flinged out.
I also found the cases of the first few shots which all had a half-moon bulge near the base. Then the actual blown case ruptured at the base with a similar half-moon shape.

Closer observation found that the feed ramp cut-out of the barrel is rather large. Then later I read numerous remarks in loading data books that suggested not to reload .40S&W for Glocks. An example as stated within Modern Reloading second edition by Richard Lee (of Lee Precision): "Do not use reloads in Glock or similar guns with chambers that do not fully support the cartridge due to the intrusion of the feed ramp"

Disturbingly, I learned at a later date, the fellow member who owns the G27 admittedly went sloppy and pulled, re-powdered and reseated the bullet on this batch of reloads without properly re-sized the case, reseated the bullet, and perhaps crimped the case. As the round was being chambered the bullet got pushed into the case further. Hence, when fired, the pressure increased to a point the case exploded from the feed ramp cut-out. I also suspected they were overly hot loaded.

And it was luck that I had to try this problematic concoction being ignorant of the potential danger. From this incident, I learned a couple of things:

  • If I were to try anyone else's firearms, use factory ammo.
  • Never try someone else's reload without knowing the person's reloading practice.

Incident #2

While doing a practice shoot in Abbotsford recently, one participate was firing a Desert Eagle .357 with super hot load that the flame was over a foot long. He also had some 9mm loads which he shot through his own gun (which is not a glock). During intermission, my friend and I were picking up our shells from the ground. We both were not shooting 9mm but found some 9mm CRACKED cases mixed into our brass. Instantly the words "hot load" popped in our heads.

Not long after the intermission, we heard an unusual bang - not a gun shot but a gun explosion. We learned that the instructor had loaned his 9mm Glock to this person to try with the "hot load". The guy suffered a bleeding puntured hand traumatized by the mag release.

The instructor's Glock's lower frame cracked wide open, trigger and guard all disintegrated, and had its barrel stuck in the slide. Presumably, the Glock was "no more".

-- " --

I reload. However, my loads are always moderate.

And for Glocks. I never had one and definitely never will.
 
Last edited:
This is human reload error. I've run my Glock 22, 23, 27, 20C, and 29 with all kinds of ammo without issues. My G22 has many thousands of rounds through it. as has been stated....an idiot can blow up any gun.
 
I have a Glock 22 that I have been shooting since early 1995 that has never had one fail to feed, fire, eject or extract. It has had approximately 30,000 rounds thru it to date, including several hundred lead bullet reloads.

Still looks pretty good despite being in & out of a holster thousands of times, too.

2007-10-28_094025_G22.jpg
 
Last edited:
Using 357mag ammo in a gun meant for 38 can cause a Kaboom so why would you use non factory approved ammo in your Glock?
Sounds pretty cut and dry to me! You want to shoot crazy hot hands loads through your gun, Then Glock is not for you. But if you want a very rugged reliable gun then Glock is Awesome!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom