For me hunting, by definition, doesn't come with any guarantees so personally I'd pass on it. It'd be a very hollow victory, if you could even call it that much. For me part of the enjoyment of hunting (and fishing too) is the challenge. When I come home empty handed I've still had a great day in the field. When I come home with meat for the freezer I know it's something I've earned through work, persistence, patience rather than just having enough money to throw at it.
Laurentian Wildlife - canned hunts...
- Thread starter blargon
- Start date
For me hunting, by definition, doesn't come with any guarantees so personally I'd pass on it. It'd be a very hollow victory, if you could even call it that much. For me part of the enjoyment of hunting (and fishing too) is the challenge. When I come home empty handed I've still had a great day in the field. When I come home with meat for the freezer I know it's something I've earned through work, persistence, patience rather than just having enough money to throw at it.
If your paying a penny for that you is bein dooped mine friend, concessions are granted to outfitters ou there. And ranches the size of which you wont believe are hunted cause you dont never see a fence. Was out all over he11's creation for near two weeks,(locals might but GPS's dont lie). Only wire I saw was one holding up a sign and one around a place a local kept three chickens out back. Amen thats it,thats all. Now having said that I would think there like anywhere they would tranq and drop for you. But I would have to guess thats where the money comes in. Not in hunting the wild blue yonder. I can tell ya that for gospel. And if your paying to stumble around endlessly you took it bad. Drove around trees and such from where I stood to near the top of that mountain. Never saw fence ,human,goat,or jack 5h1t. I have it pegged on GPS to memory. Take guess how far. And that was not anything special. And I sure didnt pay for that
. I know we passed animals though, cause we shot one on return that wasnt there on the way. Dont worry bout fenced in. And for God sakes dont pay for whats free. khrist dont let em charge ya for air to breath ,they'll start thinkin you is dumb
We hunted two ranches in South Africa, the first was huge 125,000 acres in the desert and the other about 10,000 in Central RSA. There are no fences that are game proof, we watched a herd of Kudu jump the 10' fence. Some species wouldn't be able to get in or out like Eland or wildebeest, but many sure could like kudu or impala.
If your paying a penny for that you is bein dooped mine friend, concessions are granted to outfitters ou there. And ranches the size of which you wont believe are hunted cause you dont never see a fence. Was out all over he11's creation for near two weeks,(locals might but GPS's dont lie). Only wire I saw was one holding up a sign and one around a place a local kept three chickens out back. Amen thats it,thats all. Now having said that I would think there like anywhere they would tranq and drop for you. But I would have to guess thats where the money comes in. Not in hunting the wild blue yonder. I can tell ya that for gospel. And if your paying to stumble around endlessly you took it bad. Drove around trees and such from where I stood to near the top of that mountain. Never saw fence ,human,goat,or jack 5h1t. I have it pegged on GPS to memory. Take guess how far. And that was not anything special. And I sure didnt pay for that
OK??????
This is one topic that has always facinated me because it seems people are all over the map on this one and very very few hunters have a cut and dried answer to what is okay with them and what isn't. It makes for an interesting discussion for sure! Always interesting to hear what other hunters think about fenced hunts......big and small.
My personal thoughts are that no matter what, if it's in a fence, regardless of size, it's not a true fairchase hunt. Not saying I wouldn't do it or that there is anything wrong with those that do but for me, it isn't fair chase and wouldn't have the same meaning as animals taken outside the confines of a game-proof fence.....
There are other issues with fenced ranches for sure, including loss of habitat and the disease potential but just interested in people's thoughts on hunting inside fences here.
My personal thoughts are that no matter what, if it's in a fence, regardless of size, it's not a true fairchase hunt. Not saying I wouldn't do it or that there is anything wrong with those that do but for me, it isn't fair chase and wouldn't have the same meaning as animals taken outside the confines of a game-proof fence.....
There are other issues with fenced ranches for sure, including loss of habitat and the disease potential but just interested in people's thoughts on hunting inside fences here.
I've never had a problem with game ranches. If that's what floats your boat, have at it.
Years ago my dad was at a RMEF function and there was a speaker there from the US talking about game farms. Apparently it fills a need for a lot of people who feel the need to kill an elk.
Just look at how many farms are out there now.
Want to shoot a 500+" elk
Check out www.deer-valley.com in Saskatchewan
Years ago my dad was at a RMEF function and there was a speaker there from the US talking about game farms. Apparently it fills a need for a lot of people who feel the need to kill an elk.
Just look at how many farms are out there now.
Want to shoot a 500+" elk
Check out www.deer-valley.com in Saskatchewan
As I said above, the height of the fence represents habitat loss. Our resident herds don't have a clue what a 1/4 section is so when you cut off their access to their traditional shelter,food and/or water it has a negative impact. Hunters who support habitat loss baffle me.
I agree Ike on a local level but on a global level these large ranches are often the only hope of maintaining habitat and many native wildlife species.........there are just so mant facets to this discussion that picking one side or the other is often impossible.
My biggest issue woudl be the spread of disease to wild animals.
After that, it's not an issue to me, as long as you use the proper terminology. Don't go to Texas and shoot one of thier "exotic" sheep and tell me you went sheep hunting.
If you want to go to a ranch and whack a bison, I (clearly) have no problem with it. Just call it what it is- A fun way of getting meat and buffalo hide. It's not really "hunting."
I'd also say ranches may give an excellent opportunity to someone with physical disabilites.
After that, it's not an issue to me, as long as you use the proper terminology. Don't go to Texas and shoot one of thier "exotic" sheep and tell me you went sheep hunting.
If you want to go to a ranch and whack a bison, I (clearly) have no problem with it. Just call it what it is- A fun way of getting meat and buffalo hide. It's not really "hunting."
I'd also say ranches may give an excellent opportunity to someone with physical disabilites.
Gatehouse My biggest issue would be the spread of disease to wild animals.
I'd also say ranches may give an excellent opportunity to someone with 'ethical' disabilites.[/QUOTE]
Changed it to get this thread going.
If someone wants a canned hunt because of physical disability, time limitations or because they have to much money,it's their choice.
I've heard rumours that a 'wildlife park'/ drive though zoo may be built near where I hunt. It would have the same habitat loss and possibly greater disease potential than a 'game farm' yet I wonder if the people who have a problem with canned hunts are okay with zoos?
I'd also say ranches may give an excellent opportunity to someone with 'ethical' disabilites.[/QUOTE]
Changed it to get this thread going.
If someone wants a canned hunt because of physical disability, time limitations or because they have to much money,it's their choice.
I've heard rumours that a 'wildlife park'/ drive though zoo may be built near where I hunt. It would have the same habitat loss and possibly greater disease potential than a 'game farm' yet I wonder if the people who have a problem with canned hunts are okay with zoos?
*CAUTION. Strong opinions in following text*
I've always felt pretty strongly about this.
Free-range is free-range. There are no excuses about "Oh but the game farm was THIS big...". With free-range the game go where ever they want, are not constrained or restricted, and are indeed truly "free" in every sense of the word. It's hunting you can be proud of.
A game farm is a game farm. I worked as a ranch-hand, and did my share of slaughtering cattle in the corrals, and game farms are no different in my mind. You are running "cattle" at that point. Shooting penned animals is no sport, and I would not be proud of myself after undertaking such an event.
So when it comes down to it, which story would you rather tell:
"So there I was, way out in the wilds. I tripped on a log, and tore my shirt on the uneven rocks. That was when I saw my trophy, out there grazing, blah blah blah"
OR
"So there I was, stalking around the permiter of the game pen, when I tripped on a log and tore my shirt on the barbed-wire game fence that kept my trophy in the area"...
I used to have dreams of an African hunt, but upon discovering the realities of it (granted, some hunts in Tanzania are still true "hunts"), it completely turned me off of hunting there, and makes me sick that some so-called "sportsmen" pursue the practice here in Canada.
Canned hunts are garbage. Just my opinion.
I've always felt pretty strongly about this.
Free-range is free-range. There are no excuses about "Oh but the game farm was THIS big...". With free-range the game go where ever they want, are not constrained or restricted, and are indeed truly "free" in every sense of the word. It's hunting you can be proud of.
A game farm is a game farm. I worked as a ranch-hand, and did my share of slaughtering cattle in the corrals, and game farms are no different in my mind. You are running "cattle" at that point. Shooting penned animals is no sport, and I would not be proud of myself after undertaking such an event.
So when it comes down to it, which story would you rather tell:
"So there I was, way out in the wilds. I tripped on a log, and tore my shirt on the uneven rocks. That was when I saw my trophy, out there grazing, blah blah blah"
OR
"So there I was, stalking around the permiter of the game pen, when I tripped on a log and tore my shirt on the barbed-wire game fence that kept my trophy in the area"...
I used to have dreams of an African hunt, but upon discovering the realities of it (granted, some hunts in Tanzania are still true "hunts"), it completely turned me off of hunting there, and makes me sick that some so-called "sportsmen" pursue the practice here in Canada.
Canned hunts are garbage. Just my opinion.
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- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Soo, how does everyone feel about the camp Wainwright "hunt"??
That's a fenced hunt, right?
Cat
That's a fenced hunt, right?
Cat
I don't mind so much the practice of canned hunts in general. But I do take issue with specific practices associated with some of the operations.
I don't like small areas that do not provide fair chase or the chance for the game to elude the hunter. If it doesn't provide that then it's not "hunting", it's just killing. I think that size varies depending on the animal and the terrain
I don't like penning animals and feeding them a bunch of hormones and steroids to artificially make larger Antlers.
I don't like penning animals and "releasing one to the wild". These animals have not grown up knowing how to elude predators.
I don't like tranquilizing animals so that they can be harvested easier. That's not fair chase.
As long as the operation doesn't cross these lines, then I'm okay with it.
I don't like small areas that do not provide fair chase or the chance for the game to elude the hunter. If it doesn't provide that then it's not "hunting", it's just killing. I think that size varies depending on the animal and the terrain
I don't like penning animals and feeding them a bunch of hormones and steroids to artificially make larger Antlers.
I don't like penning animals and "releasing one to the wild". These animals have not grown up knowing how to elude predators.
I don't like tranquilizing animals so that they can be harvested easier. That's not fair chase.
As long as the operation doesn't cross these lines, then I'm okay with it.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Soo, how does everyone feel about the camp Wainwright "hunt"??
That's a fenced hunt, right?
Cat
Not sure what you mean. Camp Wainwright is a legal description for its military use, not some sort of commercial hunt-ranch. There are fences, but I don't remember if they were high enough to completely encapsulate the wildlife populations. Many bases have special seasons because of articifically low hunting pressure.
Soo, how does everyone feel about the camp Wainwright "hunt"??
That's a fenced hunt, right?
Cat
Nope, it's not. The fence is far from gameproof and deer come and go as they please.
Yup, definitely lots here....guess I've just seen a bit more of the world and have been exposed to many aspects of the equation......still not for me but can see different sides of the issue.
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Being one of those people with a severe physical disability myself, I can confirm that ranches are not only an excellent opportunity, it actually is the only option I'll ever have to "hunt" in my lifetime.
I just came back 2 weeks ago from my first "hunt" (pheasants) and it was something like this :
A container (the kind you see on trains and ships and such) was in a field and a hole was cut in it's roof. That container had a proper range-like backstop on 3 sides, with "shooting stations" all around it. Further back were guys sitting on lawn chairs with dogs ready to retrieve the birds as they got shot. 2 guys would be in the container and release the birds thru the hole in the roof (from cages, the birds had been bought that very morning from a farm) one at a time. I actually got to pet the birds I was about to kill before the "hunt" began. In a way it was no different than a sporting clays range, only with live and unpredictable targets.
I also realize that in my condition, it's the only "hunting" option I'll ever have. And with the way "animal cruelty" is heading this may very well be the only time in my life that I will have gone "hunting". I got to spend a day outdoors in the "wild" (already a rare opportunity) and take potshots at critters. Did I INSIST on plucking and gutting/cleaning the birds I was left with at the end of the day myself ? you bet !
Would it have been more "humane" to grab the birds out of the cages myself and break their necks right then and there ? perhaps.
I see it as no different than going to a fish farm, dropping a line in the pond, and see what I catch. There are no "guarantees" per se that you'll come out with a trophy, but it's still fun to play "make believe" fishing (I'm fortunate enough to own a boat, engine, and even a canoe and as long as I have someone with me to help put it in the water I can go fishing on the local river, I've fished for as long as I can remember).
I'm also one of those folks that could get the doc to sign a piece of paper that I would then take to MNR so they could rubberstamp my hunting license with an exception so I could hunt from a vehicle. The end result would be that I could drive around on country roads, loaded rifle on the shotgun seat, and upon seeing a critter, open the window and shoot it from the driver's seat.
I'd still need someone with me to go retrieve the dead critter mind you.
There is definitely a market for these types of "hunts". For people like me it's not only our preferred choice, it's our ONLY choice. With the general population getting older and less mobile, that market is rapidly growing. Does it also attract the rich and lazy ? Yep, it does.
It costs a hellovalot more money than going on a "fair chase" hunt, some people are attracted to the easy part, others, such as myself reluctantly dig into their already meagerly-lined pockets just so they have the oppotunity to do something they otherwise would be barred from doing. Too bad, so sad, sucks to be me.
It's not as if the animal is led out in a field and tied to a post for some "hunter" to "execute", for lack of a better word. I wouldn't DARE even THINK of going for that.
If someone would come up with a quiet ATV so I have a set of working "legs" for the day and go on a "fair chase" hunt, I would be all over that and save all year just to have the money to do it when the season comes. It just isn't out there at this time. So you go for 2nd best, a farm that lets animals loose for the purpose of allowing people to Hunt" them.
So I'm unethical now ?
It's NOT a choice, it's just the only option we have.
Am I "proud" that I got to have gone "hunting" once in my lifetime, you bet !!! I have a cooler full of birds to prove it, I just have to figure out how to cook these things now. I wish somebody in my group had a camera to capture the huge ####-eating grin on my face I had that day. I got up early, froze my ass off most of the day, got to spend a day in the "wild outdoors" (already a rare opportunity) and got to do something that I had been dreaming about since I was a kid: go "hunting". It will remain in my mind one of the most memorable moments of my rather pathetic life. Hell in my mind it's right up there with the day I lost my virginity.
Being a country boy myself I also did my share of slaughtering. But that's different, it was something that must be done (rather reluctantly I might add, as I hated myself every time I killed something, but people have to eat, and that requires ending some critter's life, hell I'm a critter myself, all I could do was make damned sure that the killing was done as humanely as possible, and pay as much respect to the dead animal all the way thru the processing stages as if it was a member of my own family.). I found myself more than once remembering the critter and even going so far as saying a quiet prayer for it right before I cooked it. Just like I have been doing every time I filet a fish.
"sorry there little buddy, I hate to do this to you but at the end of the day you will taste good, and you can rest assured that you will not suffer, and in the rather unlikely event that you actually are "aware" of what is going on/about to happen, you and your family can rest assured that you will not be disrespected at any time."
Shooting penned/caged animals is no sport to you, and I respect that, but it's the closest thing to "sport" I'll ever come to.
I just came back 2 weeks ago from my first "hunt" (pheasants) and it was something like this :
A container (the kind you see on trains and ships and such) was in a field and a hole was cut in it's roof. That container had a proper range-like backstop on 3 sides, with "shooting stations" all around it. Further back were guys sitting on lawn chairs with dogs ready to retrieve the birds as they got shot. 2 guys would be in the container and release the birds thru the hole in the roof (from cages, the birds had been bought that very morning from a farm) one at a time. I actually got to pet the birds I was about to kill before the "hunt" began. In a way it was no different than a sporting clays range, only with live and unpredictable targets.
I also realize that in my condition, it's the only "hunting" option I'll ever have. And with the way "animal cruelty" is heading this may very well be the only time in my life that I will have gone "hunting". I got to spend a day outdoors in the "wild" (already a rare opportunity) and take potshots at critters. Did I INSIST on plucking and gutting/cleaning the birds I was left with at the end of the day myself ? you bet !
Would it have been more "humane" to grab the birds out of the cages myself and break their necks right then and there ? perhaps.
I see it as no different than going to a fish farm, dropping a line in the pond, and see what I catch. There are no "guarantees" per se that you'll come out with a trophy, but it's still fun to play "make believe" fishing (I'm fortunate enough to own a boat, engine, and even a canoe and as long as I have someone with me to help put it in the water I can go fishing on the local river, I've fished for as long as I can remember).
I'm also one of those folks that could get the doc to sign a piece of paper that I would then take to MNR so they could rubberstamp my hunting license with an exception so I could hunt from a vehicle. The end result would be that I could drive around on country roads, loaded rifle on the shotgun seat, and upon seeing a critter, open the window and shoot it from the driver's seat.
I'd still need someone with me to go retrieve the dead critter mind you.
There is definitely a market for these types of "hunts". For people like me it's not only our preferred choice, it's our ONLY choice. With the general population getting older and less mobile, that market is rapidly growing. Does it also attract the rich and lazy ? Yep, it does.
It costs a hellovalot more money than going on a "fair chase" hunt, some people are attracted to the easy part, others, such as myself reluctantly dig into their already meagerly-lined pockets just so they have the oppotunity to do something they otherwise would be barred from doing. Too bad, so sad, sucks to be me.
It's not as if the animal is led out in a field and tied to a post for some "hunter" to "execute", for lack of a better word. I wouldn't DARE even THINK of going for that.
If someone would come up with a quiet ATV so I have a set of working "legs" for the day and go on a "fair chase" hunt, I would be all over that and save all year just to have the money to do it when the season comes. It just isn't out there at this time. So you go for 2nd best, a farm that lets animals loose for the purpose of allowing people to Hunt" them.
So I'm unethical now ?
It's NOT a choice, it's just the only option we have.
Am I "proud" that I got to have gone "hunting" once in my lifetime, you bet !!! I have a cooler full of birds to prove it, I just have to figure out how to cook these things now. I wish somebody in my group had a camera to capture the huge ####-eating grin on my face I had that day. I got up early, froze my ass off most of the day, got to spend a day in the "wild outdoors" (already a rare opportunity) and got to do something that I had been dreaming about since I was a kid: go "hunting". It will remain in my mind one of the most memorable moments of my rather pathetic life. Hell in my mind it's right up there with the day I lost my virginity.
Being a country boy myself I also did my share of slaughtering. But that's different, it was something that must be done (rather reluctantly I might add, as I hated myself every time I killed something, but people have to eat, and that requires ending some critter's life, hell I'm a critter myself, all I could do was make damned sure that the killing was done as humanely as possible, and pay as much respect to the dead animal all the way thru the processing stages as if it was a member of my own family.). I found myself more than once remembering the critter and even going so far as saying a quiet prayer for it right before I cooked it. Just like I have been doing every time I filet a fish.
"sorry there little buddy, I hate to do this to you but at the end of the day you will taste good, and you can rest assured that you will not suffer, and in the rather unlikely event that you actually are "aware" of what is going on/about to happen, you and your family can rest assured that you will not be disrespected at any time."
Shooting penned/caged animals is no sport to you, and I respect that, but it's the closest thing to "sport" I'll ever come to.
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