Pattern 1892 Rifle Company Officer's sword

LawrenceN

LawrenceN

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Not a rifle of course, but a milsurp nonetheless. I'm wondering if any of you folks have an idea of the value of this piece. Since the pattern was only around from 1892 to 1895, when a new pattern was adopted, there's not a lot of these around. The blade is german (Weyersberg Kirschbaum), a little of the sword knot remains, and there's no rust or major corrosion. The scabbard is a little rough, but a little TLC and some fine steel wool and oil will take care of that. There are no names or regimental marks that I can see, so provenance is hard to establish. It's the "undress" or "light" pattern worn for formal occasions, as opposed to the heavy or regular pattern which was the actual fighting sword. Any information or input would be greatly appreciated.

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Only input I have, is before you go at it with steel wool, consider that such a sword should probably have patina on the scabbard to retain its value.
 
Correct (insofar as that goes)

Claven2 said:
Only input I have, is before you go at it with steel wool, consider that such a sword should probably have patina on the scabbard to retain its value.
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Claven, I used to date a lady who was a conservator, and through her I met some of the other conservators who specialized in metal. The Royal Ontario Museum uses an ultra fine steel wool and oil to clean antique arms and metal. Done properly, you just remove any surface rust and corrosion without damaging the natural patina (ie: bluing, browning, tinning etc.). On their swords, after they've been cleaned, they put a light coat of micro-crystalline wax, and buff until hard. A "0" steel wool or coarser will do the nasty that you mention, and abrade the patina and leave scratch marks. I see that as a major "no-no".
 
The Guard looks like 1854 Pattern. The blade were 7/8 inches wide it would be a 1854 Light version. The 1892 Pattern is simular perhaps 1 inch wide, without any markings it is hard to say, though the 92 pattern is 2-3 ounces lighter. Both 32 1/2 inches long and straight. They did have Ricasso's for both. Yes both were light as most infantry swords of 19th century. Infantry did some slashing but most of thrusting. A VR 1837 to 1901 production, though VRI would be around 1897-1901, if it could be seen.
Value at quite worn no etching left, oxidized, though no crack or chips,Your Sample $200-$300. If closer to excellent it would have been $600-$800 range. As for rarity the 1892 Pattern can be found with cypher of Edward the VII on them 1901-1910. Pattern changes usually take years to change over. Both 1854's and 92's are less common than 1897's but lots still around.
As for polishing, well that's how the blade lost all it's beautiful etching it probably had, but it can be done now to enhance the estatics.
 
Thanks for the info!

The Queens Medalist 86 said:
The Guard looks like 1854 Pattern. The blade were 7/8 inches wide it would be a 1854 Light version. The 1892 Pattern is simular perhaps 1 inch wide, without any markings it is hard to say, though the 92 pattern is 2-3 ounces lighter. Both 32 1/2 inches long and straight. They did have Ricasso's for both. Yes both were light as most infantry swords of 19th century. Infantry did some slashing but most of thrusting. A VR 1837 to 1901 production, though VRI would be around 1897-1901, if it could be seen.
Value at quite worn no etching left, oxidized, though no crack or chips,Your Sample $200-$300. If closer to excellent it would have been $600-$800 range. As for rarity the 1892 Pattern can be found with cypher of Edward the VII on them 1901-1910. Pattern changes usually take years to change over. Both 1854's and 92's are less common than 1897's but lots still around.
As for polishing, well that's how the blade lost all it's beautiful etching it probably had, but it can be done now to enhance the estatics.
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I have the book "Swords of the British Army", and that's what I've been using for reference. Though the pics don't show it, the etching is still quite discernable. According to my book, the left side of the guard on the '54 pattern has an interwoven motif, whereas the '92 pattern has the 2 open holes (see pics). The blade is 11/16" at the shoulder, which is why I assumed it to be an "undress" pattern. As to condition, I would rate it as "VG" for the blade, and "G" for the scabbard, as there's no dents, just corrosion. Of course nothing beats seeing the sword in person. Given the values you cite, I'd say this is around $400. - $500. John Denner up your way has a poorer example of something similar, and he's asking $385.
 
With a blade that narrow, it might be a sword someone just has to have. I had a WWII produced Japanese Katana on my show table at 750 and it went in 5 minutes. This same guy,buyer, has it on his table for 1750 next show. Well it took a year but he moved it close to his asking price.
 
More info!

The Queens Medalist 86 said:
With a blade that narrow, it might be a sword someone just has to have. I had a WWII produced Japanese Katana on my show table at 750 and it went in 5 minutes. This same guy,buyer, has it on his table for 1750 next show. Well it took a year but he moved it close to his asking price.
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Value is always untimately determined by what someone is willing to pay. I took some more measurements, and the blade is 33" long from the guard to the tip. It's 3/16" thick, and (I double checked!) it is indeed 23/32", so just shy the 3/4" mark. I tried to get some pics of the engraving, but getting the light and angle right are proving to be too much for my limited photography skill. What do you think of my assumption that it's probably an "undress" pattern? With a blade that narrow, and long it for sure isn't a battle blade. Since you're the only response I've had that seems to have any real knowledge to share, I wonder as to your estimation of it's probable value. If you have a moment to spare, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
 
Based on your furthur descriptions, lightness and better lookin than pics,still has pretty blade. I beleive you have a sword/scabbard in the $450 range. It appears to be a Picquet after hrs. type sword.
 
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