newbie loader .308 questions

[stevebc]

I inherited my Dad's bolt action .308 target rifle, his reloading gear and some of his notes. It has a 13" twist, and just as he did, I'll be using Varget and SMK 155's. My experience so far is at 300m, and I hope to get out to 1000yds eventually. (I did shoot at last years Summerland shoot, but I was using peep sights and NATO surplus 147gr. I was mainly there for the fun.)
My Dad's notes show that when he switched from IMR 4895 to Varget, he began at 45.2gr (they were going subsonic past 900 yds), and ended up loading at 46.0.

I've seen others here who use 46grs, and I used some of Dad's 46gr stuff at the Frosty Farky, so I'm wondering why Sierra says their max load using Varget for the Palma Match 155 is 44.8 grs, and Hodgdon says the max using Varget for a 155 is 44.0 ?

Also, I've neck sized, trimmed and chamfered a little over 300 various cases (a real mixture: DA66, LC74, LC Match, Win, Imperial, Fed, and even some Lapua) and I'm about to sort them by weight. Obviously, some of these are going to vary in weight by a substantial amount. I've heard the 10% less rule for military cases, but even the military varies a lot, and some of the commercial stuff approaches military weight. Even the Lapua varies by a few grains, so I'm wondering:
Is there an overall cartridge weight I should be looking for, or is there a rule of thumb that tells me what charges I should be using per case weight to come up with as close as possible to a uniform round. Or should I just try to come up with say, 100 cases within 1 gr of each other, and reject the rest?

Add to all this the variations in bullet weight and it can get to be a bit confusing for a newbie loader. Any advice?

 

[smak_daddy]

I inherited my Dad's bolt action .308 target rifle, his reloading gear and some of his notes. It has a 13" twist, and just as he did, I'll be using Varget and SMK 155's. My experience so far is at 300m, and I hope to get out to 1000yds eventually. (I did shoot at last years Summerland shoot, but I was using peep sights and NATO surplus 147gr. I was mainly there for the fun.)
My Dad's notes show that when he switched from IMR 4895 to Varget, he began at 45.2gr (they were going subsonic past 900 yds), and ended up loading at 46.0.

I've seen others here who use 46grs, and I used some of Dad's 46gr stuff at the Frosty Farky, so I'm wondering why Sierra says their max load using Varget for the Palma Match 155 is 44.8 grs, and Hodgdon says the max using Varget for a 155 is 44.0 ?

Also, I've neck sized, trimmed and chamfered a little over 300 various cases (a real mixture: DA66, LC74, LC Match, Win, Imperial, Fed, and even some Lapua) and I'm about to sort them by weight. Obviously, some of these are going to vary in weight by a substantial amount. I've heard the 10% less rule for military cases, but even the military varies a lot, and some of the commercial stuff approaches military weight. Even the Lapua varies by a few grains, so I'm wondering:
Is there an overall cartridge weight I should be looking for, or is there a rule of thumb that tells me what charges I should be using per case weight to come up with as close as possible to a uniform round. Or should I just try to come up with say, 100 cases within 1 gr of each other, and reject the rest?

Add to all this the variations in bullet weight and it can get to be a bit confusing for a newbie loader. Any advice?

After much testing with my .308 with a 1:14 twist, 155 SMKs and 46 grains of Varget was my best load by far. It shoots .3"-.5" 5 shot groups at 100 metres if I do my part. There are no pressure signs. Every rifle is different though. I would suggest working up to this load. Remember reloading manuals are conservative in their recommended loads (i.e. lawsuits). Older reloading manuals often have hotter loads listed.

As far as your brass question goes, if it were up to me I'd start fresh and buy 200 pieces of new .308 brass. Your mixed brass may work, but I would feel much safer buying some new brass. Take the guessing out of it. Plus consistency equals accuracy.

I would ignore the overall cartridge weight. In fact after many years of reloading, I have never measured the total weight of any reloaded cartridge. Follow the reloading procedures carefully.

Good shooting and Merry Christmas.

 

[ron hilchey]

45-46g of Varget seems to be about the norm with 155s in a 1/13 Palma style barrel.
My experience with brass is to buy good quality (Norma/ Lapua), sort them and record the no. of times fired, and trimmed.
only good components make good ammo.

 

[Ganderite]

I agree with above. Dump that brass and get either a few hundred good new commercial cases, or a btch of once fired commercial cases. If you buy the once fired, they should all be from the same lot of ammo.

Then sort all cases by weight.

 

[stevebc]

Hmm, I should have mentioned that all this brass has been fired in my rifle. Or would the consensus still be to start with new stuff of all one brand?
In either case, should I just sort by weight and accept the variations?

 

[ron hilchey]

Once you sort by brand(at least7), then by weight I am not sure that you will have much left. Good for practice though. 300 good cases should do you for years.

 

[maynard]

Toss the brass you have and buy as much Lapua brass from the same lot as you can afford. I have 1800 pieces of .308 Lapua that vary from 170gr up to 174gr so I sort them into 1 gr batches. Once sorted they live their life in green MTM boxes.
46 gr of Varget is about the standard Palma load for long range shooters that use Varget powder and 155 gr bullets.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

Older reloading manuals often have hotter loads listed

Be careful with that advice. It's true, but the reasons are not always Lawyers.
Some powders have changed burning rates slightly over the last few decades, and some companies are now using pressure equipment that used to use personal observation of case measurements etc. in the test rifle.
Work up loads carefully.

 

[Boomer]

The maximum load you need to be concerned about is the maximum load for your rifle, not the maximum load from the book. The book should be used as a guidline only, and I've had several rifles that showed a maximum load that was lower than the published data suggested.

While it is important to separate cases by weight, separate them by make as well. Military brass like LC Match will have less volume than commercial brass. Not all brass is made of the same alloy, so equal weight between cases from two manufacturers might not mean equal volume. A difference of a half to one grain difference between cases of the same make will mean that they haver very similar capacity. I agree with GANDERITE, you'll be better off if you standardize your brass. Buy Lapua if you want to just load and shoot, buy Winchester if you want to save some money and are prepared to do a bit more case prep.

Ignore overall cartridge weight. Its very difficult to know what you are weighing, and if the difference is important. Weigh your brass, and weigh your bullets, even if just to cull out the heaviest and the lightest ones.

 

[catnthehatt]

Toss the brass you have and buy as much Lapua brass from the same lot as you can afford. I have 1800 pieces of .308 Lapua that vary from 170gr up to 174gr so I sort them into 1 gr batches. Once sorted they live their life in green MTM boxes.
46 gr of Varget is about the standard Palma load for long range shooters that use Varget powder and 155 gr bullets.

X2!
If you are near Kamloops, contact Paul Reibin at Rangesports Unlimited, he can help you with your Lapua brass.

If the chamber is good, you won't have to worry about trimming for a while.
Cat

 

[stevebc]

X2!
If you are near Kamloops, contact Paul Reibin at Rangesports Unlimited, he can help you with your Lapua brass.

If the chamber is good, you won't have to worry about trimming for a while.
Cat

Ok, the advice is consistent even if it's not what I wanted to hear.
I know Paul, I'll give him a call soon. Thanks all.

 

[p-17]

If you want to work up a load, use the Winchester and Lapua cases, if you have enough. If you can afford it, buy a few hundred new Lapua cases, and you'll be working in style. If not, buy a few hundred Winchester cases, and you'll also be doing well.

I don't recall if you mentioned what type of action you're using, or how tight the barrel is. Obviously, if it's a .3065" barrel, you'll need to use lighter loads than if it is a .3080" barrel.

Assuming it's a strong action and a standard barrel, most people find that something between 45.5 grain and 47.0 grains of Varget works best. In my main TR Rifle with a McLennan .3070 with 1-13" twist, I use 47.0 grains Varget with a 155. In my backup, with a .3075" Kriger (also 1-13" twist), I use 46.5 grains. Finally, in an old beater, with a .3065" Donnelly barrel (1-11.25" twist), I use 45.5 Varget.

The Hodgdon guide lists something above 47 grains as maximum, and most people will agree with that. In my rifles, none of the above loads are maximum, but I would not interchange these loads between rifles.

I agree with all the people who recommend that you talk to Paul Reibin. If you're in Kamloops, you could also talk to Mark Anderson.

Good luck.

 

[stevebc]

I don't recall if you mentioned what type of action you're using, or how tight the barrel is. Obviously, if it's a .3065" barrel, you'll need to use lighter loads than if it is a .3080" barrel.

It's a Grunig & Elmiger, and according to Paul Reiben, it's not the original barrel, although he couldn't identify whose barrel it was. It is just under 28.5 inches, and appears to be stainless, but a magnet does stick to it.

I measured across the lands just now and came up with this:

Do I read this as .3092? And is that good or bad?

 

[p-17]

The Grunig is a serious action, so that rifle should be strong and able to withstand full power loads.

You can't really measure a bore that way. You'll need to actually push a lead slug through and measure the result with a micrometer.

I'll tell you what I'd do if I had personally inherited that rifle:

I'd work up a load with Winchester or Lapua brass.

I'd start with a box of 155 Sierras and shoot at 100 yards. This would give you a standard reference. Pretty well all rifles will shoot Sierra 155s well, though some rifles will eventually show a tiny preference for another brand of bullets.

I'd start loading with 44 grains of Varget and stop at around 47 or 47.5, depending upon pressure signs. In the beginning, I'd work up in 1/2 grain increments and I'd shoot five shots of each at 100 yards. That should show you the basic charges that it prefers. Most people I've talked to seem to find something between 46 and 46.5 to be the best, but it varies.

You should load each charge with enough rounds to give you a group of at least five shots. With a serious match rifle, you should test for accuracy with 5-shot groups. (With a hunting rifle, in contrast, you can get away with 3-shot groups because a hunting rifle is not generally called upon to shoot long, sustained, consistent strings of shots in the same place.)

I'd seat the Sierras .020" off the lands to start.

I'd use a decent scope for the load testing part (when shooting off the bench). I'd only switch to match iron sights once I'd settled upon the final load and I knew that everything was working to the best of its ability. It looks like you've got a decent scope on there right now, so you should be good to go.

Once you know your approximate ideal powder charge, you can go back and fine tune the load by loading up and down in 2/10 increments. You can also try experimenting with different brands of bullets (i.e. Hornady AMAX, Berger, Lapua and Nosler).

One final note: don't overdo it. It all depends upon the type of shooting you plan to do, I suppose. However, if you are shooting 5 shots into, say, 4/10 of an inch at 100 and the performance is consistent from day to day, I wouldn't be too eager to spend more time experimenting, trying to shrink the groups to 3/10. There comes a point where tiny increases in accuracy require huge amounts of extra effort. In a benchrest match, you'll need it for sure. An F-Class match these days is essentially a benchrest match, so you'll have to spend a great deal of time and effort fiddling. If, however, you just want fun, accurate shooting, or TR shooting, then you don't need to go overboard. Just use what seems to work well and DO A LOT OF SHOOTING. For a junior shooter, if given the choice between firing 500 rounds of a load that groups 1/2 m.o.a or 150 rounds of a load that groups 1/4 m.o.a. (because all the time and money is spent making those loads, rather than shooting), you should go with the option that gives you more shooting practice. You'll be a much better shot in the long run, trust me.

 

[stevebc]

I realize how fortunate I am; I wouldn't be in this game were it not for this rifle. I do wish I could have got it some other way...
I look forward to seeing what results I get from different seating depths, and I'm going to price out some competition dies like the Reddings, as my results with the ordinary RCBS dies aren't consistent. Also, I am planning to do a comparison between the SMK's and Hornady Amax's.
I'm getting some great advice with this thread, and can't wait to start loading, shooting, and seeing results. If we don't see much more snow, I may even be able to get up to the range before Spring...
My Mom still lives in Ladner, mayhap we'll meet some day.