Noob Magnum Muzzle Flash Question

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GSoD

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Background: I compiled all my gift cards and treated myself to a S&W 686 with 6" barrel. It's my first wheel gun after getting into the handgun game last year with a Glock 22 and a H&K USP .45.

Took it to the range tonight and put through some .38Special and .357Mag.

Was initially very startled by the muzzle flash that came from the .357Mag.

I had previously fired my brothers Ruger Blackhawk in .357Mag and don't recall such a muzzle flash.

A quick googling seems to suggest such an intense muzzle flash is not uncommon in the 686.

Question:
Why muzzle flash out of one .357 mag and not the other?
Different ammo?
Differnt gun design?
6" barrel (on 686)vs. 8" barrel (on ruger)
Shot indoors (686) vs. shot outdoors (ruger)

Just curious.

PS - What do you guys do to get a good shine out of your SS guns? I was thinking some auto polish and wax to get it all mirrored up?

PSS - after I caught my breath, I loved it. Definately a more viseral experience than the pistols.
 
Ain't it quite the show?

Indoors vs out will play a huge part in seeing any residual flame cloud. Also it's only there for a split second while the powder granules are burning still. And then there's the side spray out from the cylinder to forcing cone gap. All in all with a cartridge like a .357 Magnum it makes for a helluva fireworks display. Barrel length plays a part as well obviously. If it's long enough all the burn will occur while the bullet is still traversing the barrel. I've even shot a couple of .357Mag from the hip with the gun pointed towards the backstop but only just generally at my own target just to watch the show.

I've noticed that I don't see it as much from behind the gun. But stand to the side while someone else is shooting and there's quite a show to see. Also the make of the cartridge makes a huge difference as well. Some use a powder that burns fast so it's all spent before the bullet leaves the muzzle. Others use a slower burning mix so there's still active flame occuring as the bullet leaves the muzzle.
 
Can anyone recommend some commonly available reduced flash .357mag ammo?

The stuff I used to "introduce me to the light" was Winchester WinClean 125grain JSP.
 
I recently picked up a 686 as well and have really been enjoying it!

I'm with BCRider though in that I don't really notice a muzzle flash of any kind, even with .357. I have the Power Port model so I don't know if that makes a difference at all. But with my concentration on the front sight all I really notice is the sight kicking up and a blurring in the air around it as the shot goes off. I'll have to widen my vision a bit to see if I can see any muzzle flash. Or find a darker section of the indoor range to fire in.
 
GSoD said:
Question:
Why muzzle flash out of one .357 mag and not the other?
Different ammo?
Differnt gun design?
6" barrel (on 686)vs. 8" barrel (on ruger)
Shot indoors (686) vs. shot outdoors (ruger)
Click to expand...
There's your answer. Muzzle flash is much more noticeable indoors.
 
a lady derringer in .357 with maybe 2" of barrel length will remove all the hair from your knuckles... well the 2 you can wrap around the grip anyway :D

indoor VS outdoor is probably why you noticed it more...
 
The double-lobed flame plane from the cylinder gap, when caught on film, reminds us why we hold revolvers differently than semi-autos.

Here's a pic of a 500 S&W...

Tom_500_nightfiring.jpg
 
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WOW nice pic :)

reminds me of the time my father was trying to demonstrate his "precision" shooting with a .44, he rolled up his sleve.. placed the underside of the barrel on his left forearm... and before anyone could stop him he pulled the trigger...

he wore that badge of honor for better then 2 week's... powder burns are no laughing matter, BE CAREFULL
 
Hotwheels81 said:
a lady derringer in .357 with maybe 2" of barrel length will remove all the hair from your knuckles... well the 2 you can wrap around the grip anyway :D
Click to expand...

I can add that a derringer in 10mm also works well to the same purpose.... :rolleyes: :D

But on another note, even short barrelled 22's produce a surprising muzzle flash with some brands of ammo. Actually some loads give quite an impressive flash for such a "puny" little cartridge.
 
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WW-296 and H-110 are definitely 'flashy' powders. I've found that the heavier bullets (158g +) don't flash as much as the lighter 110 and 125g loads.
 
GSoD said:
Can anyone recommend some commonly available reduced flash .357mag ammo?

The stuff I used to "introduce me to the light" was Winchester WinClean 125grain JSP.
Click to expand...

i'm still playing with factory stuff myself. i did find the cheap wolf 158gr to have less flash. just be in a well ventilated area as you may find it to be much smokier than the winclean. i like them both but i'm cheap, i get the wolf when it comes around.
 
mtbore said:
....Here's a pic of a 500 S&W...

Tom_500_nightfiring.jpg
Click to expand...

Now THERE'S a picture that I need for my computer screen's wallpaper.... :D

Or better yet, I need to re-create that shot but with myself holding the giant hand cannon 50AE.... :D


rhs said:
WW-296 and H-110 are definitely 'flashy' powders. I've found that the heavier bullets (158g +) don't flash as much as the lighter 110 and 125g loads.
Click to expand...

Thankyou! Once I get into re-loading one of the missions is to create some expecially show'y flashbang rounds. Not hot loads but loads that kick with a normal or very slightly reduced Magnum pressure but also put on a show for the peanut gallery and operator.... I know it won't make the holes in the paper get closer together but sometimes a guy's gotta do some stuff just for the giggle factor.
 
Ruger GP100

Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum with 110 gr JHP factory cartridge (not me in the photo but shooter shared some details)

GP100.jpg
 
Ok, makes me feel better. Just shocked me on the first trigger pull when my whole field of vision became fire. Had to wiggle my fingers after to make sure I was still there.

So two follow up questions:

a) I'll be moving to handload these things pretty fast. Sounds like one step is to move to a heavier bullet (I'm assuming heavier means slower means more time to burn in the barrel). Step two is quicker burning or lower flash powder - any suggestions?

b) I'm no ballistics expert, but does the excess muzzle flash equal an ineffecient design? If the powder is burning outside the barrel after the bullet has left, obviously it isn't propelling the bullet anymore. So why put the extra powder in there?

Just wonderin'
 
GSoD said:
Ok, makes me feel better. Just shocked me on the first trigger pull when my whole field of vision became fire. Had to wiggle my fingers after to make sure I was still there.....
Click to expand...

:D LOL :D Yeah, been there and did the same thing. A .460S&W really makes a guy crave after red meat once he knows that he survived with all the appendages intact... :D

Now the comments below need to be taken with a grain of salt since I'm new to this as well but I've been reading a lot lately about this sort of topic.

I think you're on the right track on all counts other than watching out for a powder that burns TOO fast and thus raises the pressure beyond the safe limits before the bullet can get out of the way.

Consider that the casing, chamber and barrel along with the bullet forms a pressure chamber that grows in size while the bullet is moving down the barrel. Yes there's leakage out the gap but let's ignore that for the moment. Ideally you want a powder that finishes burning, and thus increasing the internal pressure just before the bullet leaves the muzzle. That way the pressure buildup in the gun is more smooth and the maximum pressure spike is better controlled. A really fast spikey burning powder may well finish its burn before the bullet is really started and the pressure spike may be a lot higher than you think it should be or that is safe.

I've seen references to pressure calculators. I'm not sure if they are online or it's a chart that the powder makers provide. Hopefully someone will reply with which it is.

I'm inclined to think that a big flame shows that the round is being inefficient but then again there's a lot of hot gas in there and it may well be that the big majority of the burn is done before the bullet leaves and all you're seeing is a very hot gas that is glowing because it is so hot. In any event SOME flame out the cylinder gap will be unavoidable since this is the nature of revolvers. And there's no way at all that you'll get all the powder burnt before the bullet moves across the gap and neither would you want that to happen or again the pressure spike would be too high for the gun to withstand.

At least this is how I see it given my eager reading about my new hobby. And besides, what's wrong with a bit of a fireworks show?
 
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