what range is the M14/M305 effective to?
- Thread starter Fenix.NZ
- Start date
My lightly tuned norc shoots MOA all day on a good day with hand loads and me doing my part. Depending on how much work you want to put into these rifles I'm sure you could reach out to 700m alright. The limitations are those inherent to the round and your wallet.
I have heard the US Military rates them effective to 600m
** I googled this, and found a plethora of sites claiming between 500 yards and 800m most are in the 600m +/-.
also, by effective range, I assume you mean effective at its intending purpose, ie: killing mammals of a certain size and weight...
** I googled this, and found a plethora of sites claiming between 500 yards and 800m most are in the 600m +/-.
also, by effective range, I assume you mean effective at its intending purpose, ie: killing mammals of a certain size and weight...
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Source??
Hungry here: Back in the pre-1997 years when the USMC Shooting Team would kick lots of butt with their M14's bedded in McMillan Fat bastard stocks, they would shoot the (can't recall the name exactly, but I'm close) Wimbledon Cup (close enough, but you get the idea) at 1000 yards and many of the 10rd groups would be inside a foot or 10" group. No joking!! And that's with IRON sights! That illustrates the accuracy potential of this boomstick family. Now, remember that each team was accompanied by an 18 wheeler tractor trailer and Gunnery Sergeants happy to help you tweak your M1A (no kidding) and / or your M1 Garand. If you watch the movie, "Shooter" starring Mark Wahlberg, that story is based a great deal around the exploits of (Rest in Peace) Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock who took the Wimbledon Match in 1965 (? gotta go to the bookshelf and dig up my copy of Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills) using a tweaked iron sighted Winchester Model 70 in .300 Win Mag (I could also be wrong here).
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My issued, accurized, M14 was able to hit man sized targets reliably to 800m.
Hungry here: Done this lots at 800 yards with my Douglas barreled NM (chambered about 1 thou crush = 1.629") shooting 155 gr Sierra MK Palma bullets (molycoated FWIW) on a bipod at fig 11's. Not a problem..... But as much fun as it was competing with this tweaked Norinco M14, I still am most happy at sniper matches with my Winny M70 Stealth II or Varmint Synthetic M700 .308. More predictable results and less (longer barrel, eh?) comeups needed on the Leupold LR/T Mark4 M1 6.5 x 20 x 50mm mildot.
Hungry here: Done this lots at 800 yards with my Douglas barreled NM (chambered about 1 thou crush = 1.629") shooting 155 gr Sierra MK Palma bullets (molycoated FWIW) on a bipod at fig 11's. Not a problem..... But as much fun as it was competing with this tweaked Norinco M14, I still am most happy at sniper matches with my Winny M70 Stealth II or Varmint Synthetic M700 .308. More predictable results and less (longer barrel, eh?) comeups needed on the Leupold LR/T Mark4 M1 6.5 x 20 x 50mm mildot.
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I mainly shoot at around 400m. The furthest shooting I have done with any of mine was about 800m. I didn't burn enough ammo at that range to tell you much about reliability, but at 400m I find them very effective and consistent.
I suspect that a good shooter could do well at 800m.
At 400m I have mostly used the irons, although I did begin using an eotech last year. I have not used any magnified scopes with any of my m14s at this point. 800m with irons I found very difficult but not impossible. I did have a spotter with optics to guide me which was not necessary to make the shots but was necessary to confirm the hits!
I suspect that a good shooter could do well at 800m.
At 400m I have mostly used the irons, although I did begin using an eotech last year. I have not used any magnified scopes with any of my m14s at this point. 800m with irons I found very difficult but not impossible. I did have a spotter with optics to guide me which was not necessary to make the shots but was necessary to confirm the hits!
In this thread,
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162227&highlight=vokes,
I describe shooting a completely stone stock Norc at up to 600M on a local military range east of Vancouver BC.
I didn't win anything, but I did most shots on target, and did get several V's
(The target is numbered one to five, so the centre of the Five is not an X, but a V.)
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=162227&highlight=vokes,
I describe shooting a completely stone stock Norc at up to 600M on a local military range east of Vancouver BC.
I didn't win anything, but I did most shots on target, and did get several V's
(The target is numbered one to five, so the centre of the Five is not an X, but a V.)
I shoot mine to 1000m and hit a "human size" target 90% of the time that day. Grouping was terrible but it was on target
I made a post about it if you want the drop
That was fun ! and the start of the race for accuracy
any upgrading to your rifle?
I would love to see the fine print on that claim. Do you have a reference? I have never seen a claim like that. Must be 1 shot indoors.
When I hear an X MOA I want to see it to be in both precision and accuracy, and in some meaningful amount of shots.
A nice cluster group of 3 is great precision and all, but if they all miss, then it is not accurate at all. If the cluster of 3 moves around, same problem. see: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218
1000 yards is a long way out there for MOA in both precision and accuracy for any 308. Yes I have seen rifles/shooters that I would say fit that bill, but they are uber target rifles. Not rattling semis.
Don't get me wrong, I love the M-14, but I doubt a company with military contracts would put their name on a 1000 yard MOA claim. I'd love to see repeated ~5inch dispersion from the point of aim at 1000yards with a semi though. Heck. I enjoy seeing it with an ubertarget rifle.
A nice cluster group of 3 is great precision and all, but if they all miss, then it is not accurate at all. If the cluster of 3 moves around, same problem. see: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218
1000 yards is a long way out there for MOA in both precision and accuracy for any 308. Yes I have seen rifles/shooters that I would say fit that bill, but they are uber target rifles. Not rattling semis.
Don't get me wrong, I love the M-14, but I doubt a company with military contracts would put their name on a 1000 yard MOA claim. I'd love to see repeated ~5inch dispersion from the point of aim at 1000yards with a semi though. Heck. I enjoy seeing it with an ubertarget rifle.
This pretty much sums up how I feel...I love the M14 but let's remember that when you turn off the internet, a 1 moa rifle is an extremely accurate machine.
On the internet, accurate rifles seem to shoot about .2 moa but in real life, this is so rare even at 100 yards that it doesn't really bear mentioning in discussions of actual rifles.
If anyone can get an M14 to shoot 2 moa at 1000 yards, I would think that was pretty incredible. That would pretty consistently kill men at the absolute limit of the .308 round. That's about as much as anyone can ask from a semi auto weapon IMO. The US military seems to have a 1 moa spec for their .308 bolt guns and they don't intend them for past 1000 yards.
I am happy with my norks when they start reliably shooting a wide range of ammo under 2 moa. I am impressed if they get down under about 1.5 moa. That is loads of accuracy for a semi. Remember these are battle rifles, not target rifles. You want them to survive being dragged through the mud for a while before dumping 8 mags into a flock of zombies. If you want a target machine, there are better platforms. If you want a SHTF machine for intermediate ranges, this is the gun to have.
misanthropist: You said it right for the SHTF scenario or a zombie raid. Nothing comes close the the M14 (yup, even my Norc M14) not even my AR15! And I love AR15's for competition (I'm too ugly to dress up in my tac vest/rig to look at myself in the mirror posting with my M4 wannabe) and look cool value. Yes the M14 can shoot into 1 MOA with boring regularity (built so many up, and done this lots), but when I want to shoot small groups, I just shoot my M70 StealthII or M700Police, lots cheaper that way. Save your money!
