winchester vs pmc once fired brass

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teamswve

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I just picked up an AR-15 (.223) recently and i'm looking into getting some ammo in bulk, 1000 rds in a case, .223 55 gr FMJ. I reload, so i'm debating between either winchester or PMC. Any input on which might be the better quality brass.

As far as I know, this PMC ammo has a crimped primer and the winchester does not. Do you think after removing the crimp on the PMC it will have a looser pocket than with the Winchester, which doesn't have a crimp? Winchester is a little more money than the PMC. Is it worth it?

I look forward to any suggestions you might have.

Thanks in advance.

Greg
 
you need one of those primer swaging dies or w/e ther called to remove the crimp it might reduce the life of the pocket a little but im not an expert im a noob at reloading so im sure someone more knowledgeable will speak up....
 
Winchester brass is considered better. If PMC is priced well, I beleive you can use a primer pocket uniformer tool in a drill to remove the crimp and uniform pocket depth in one step.
 
The PMC is $450/1000 rds and the winchester is $550 for 1000 rds. I'm looking at getting a Dillon Super swage if I can find one. It's supposed to be one of the better ones from what I've read.
 
Primer pocket crimping is done for MG's. PMC supplies the Korean military. Once the crimp is gone, the brass is the same as any other brass. How you get the crimp out doesn't matter. Can't say as I'd buy a special tool for a one time job though. Even for 1,000. Your chamfering tool will do it. Albeit, slowly.
 
The Dillon Swage is crap in my opinion -yes I own one, and yes I've used it...
a slight chamfer cut or uniforming if chucked to a cordless drill is far superior and faster to do imho.

I think for a hundred dollar difference, I'd go with the PMC -but I'd get LOTS of it to keep the brass the same.
 
I used thousands of rounds of PMC in my AR-15. Not a thing wrong with it. You seriously won't see a difference between Win and PMC. You aren't a benchrest shooter, it's not a benchrest rifle, and Win 223 brass is no more benchrest quality then PMC.
To remove the crimp definitely get the RCBS (or Dillon) pocket swager. It's FAST, EASY, and does a PERFECT job.
 
Pay the extra $100 and get the winchester brass.
The other benefit other than not having to remove the crimp when reloading is the fact that any crimped brass is military so it will be a bit thicker and as such you have to back off your loads about 10% or you'll actually get higher pressures than in typical winchester brass.
I find it incredibly tiring to remove the crimp using the chamfering tool, and everytime I go to WSS or Russells they either don't know what I'm talking about when I ask for a "swaging tool", pocket uniform tool, etc... it's aggravating! So save yourself the trouble, pay a little extra and take the easy road.
 
sahara said:
To remove the crimp definitely get the RCBS (or Dillon) pocket swager. It's FAST, EASY, and does a PERFECT job.
Click to expand...


Swaging isn't perfect. It only displaces the crimped brass, and often that displaced brass is not uniform after the swaging process.

proonur said:
...the fact that any crimped brass is military so it will be a bit thicker and as such you have to back off your loads about 10% or you'll actually get higher pressures than in typical winchester brass.
Click to expand...

Not all crimped brass is necessarily military, and not all civilian packaged ammunition will have brass cases that do not meet military specifications.
Have you measured the volumes between the two? In short, you cannot make assumptions on case volume or wall thickness without imperical evidence.
I'd put money on the Win. & PMC brass being virtually identical.
 
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primer pockets

beltfed said:
Swaging isn't perfect. It only displaces the crimped brass, and often that displaced brass is not uniform after the swaging process.

The part that is crimped then swaged back into place is a very thin band at the very front of the primer pocket, not the entire pocket. Gimmee a break.
Click to expand...
 
sahara said:
The part that is crimped then swaged back into place is a very thin band at the very front of the primer pocket, not the entire pocket. Gimmee a break.
Click to expand...

I understand that. There are different types of crimping, and those of the same type on the same lot of brass can vary in 'thickness' or 'heft' of crimp.
The swaging process only displaces the brass, and often it will end up back into the primer pocket. Sometimes swaging works great, sometimes it is uneven and that pocket will need to be 'uniformed'.
Don't believe me though, go and try it out on a couple or thousands of pieces of brass like I have and see for yourself.
 
Not all crimped brass is necessarily military, and not all civilian packaged ammunition will have brass cases that do not meet military specifications.
Have you measured the volumes between the two? In short, you cannot make assumptions on case volume or wall thickness without imperical evidence.
I'd put money on the Win. & PMC brass being virtually identical.
Click to expand...

The PMC I've looked at looks just like that AE brass that is military.
I've actually loaded up military brass with the same loads as civilian and gotten away with it, but I did notice a difference in accuracy.
That's why I say for $100 difference why not just keep things simple and certain.
 
Well, i was able to get my hands on some once fired Winchester brass and it had crimped primers. So i figured i'd take the suggestion from Sunray and use the inside chamfer method. It does work, but you're right...quite time consuming. It should do the trick though. Thanks for the help. I think if i was going to do 1000's of rds i'd be inclined to find a tool for the job. At any rate, it works, and thanks again.
 
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