Need Feedback - Weak Strikes On Primer

ridgearms

ridgearms

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On my bolt action, 6 or more of 20 rounds of Winchester silver box 30-06 ammo did not go off with the first pull of the trigger. Examining the cartridges the strikes on the primer appeared to be very weak/light. Barely even denting on some trigger pulls.

I took the rifle into the gunsmith, he checked the headspacing and said it was ok. Oh yeah, and he also examined the firing pin and said it was fine. I tested it again and I got the same results, weak strikes and shots not going off. Albeit the temperature that the rifle was sitting in before being shot was cold to freezing. So I'm not sure if this affected the operation of the bolt/rifle.

Has anyone else ever encountered this problem and what could it be other than head spacing. I should mention that I sent the rifle back to the shop that I bought it from and they are denying that the problem is with the rifle and won't refund me for my losses on the item. i.e. shipping, bore sighting, ammo, gunsmith examinations, and time.

Has anyone experienced similar situations with a bolt action?
 
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Yea - is this a Mauser, a semi-auto, what is it?

Is it only with this ammo?

Clean the bolt thoroughly for sure, and if it's an old gun, it could require a fresh firing pin spring. They lose their strength over time.

Based on what you've shared (not much) you seem to have received poor advice from the gunsmith (or did you just pose the wrong questions, i.e. headspace?), and IMO were very premature in sending the gun back.
 
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Holleyman said:
Make, Model??
Did you disassemble the bolt and clean it? Very easy routine maintenance step that will more than likely solve your problem.
Click to expand...

Good advise - start there and get back to us.

I am wondering : if a gunsmith checked the firing pin why he did not clean the bolt and check what was the problem and, more important, fix it ??:eek:
 
I would hope that if a gunsmith checked it you can rule out improper functioning of the bolt, but maybe not. As posted before, check that the bolt is not over greased/oiled. Try it again in warmer weather, not always easy given the time of year. I would also try it with different ammo, perhaps you got a bad batch. One other thing to consider is the age of the ammo and where it has been stored.
 
I've encountered this twice in the past month. The first was test firing a bubbad P-14 that a friend gave me. I degreased the bolt and lubed lightly with US Army weapons oil that doesn't thicken with cold, problem solved. The second was a Rem 700 22-250 that belongs to a friend. I load for him. He emailed me in a panic one evening when the weather got cold, somethings wrong with my ammo, hangfires. I had him bring it over, degreased the bolt and lubed with non-thickening oi. Problem solved. The main problem area (unless the striker and spring are covered in cosmo) is where the striker goes thru the bolt shroud. May as well clean and relube the trigger group at the same time.

The US Army Medium Weapons oil that I use is terrific for winter use. I only have two bottles of it so I save it for late fall and winter and use ordinary gun oil in the warmer months. I degrease with brake cleaner but be careful not to get overspray on your wood stock or you may be refinishing it.
 
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Sorry guys, for those who asked it was a Mossberg 4x4, magazine fed, bolt action.

I left it out because I thought the make of the gun might incite a poor quality or bad quality remark. I just wanted to to know about problems related to function.

That being said, the bolt was cleaned, but certain lubes were not suggested by anyone. Should this have happened on an almost brand new gun?

I should add that the smith told me to try to warm up the bolt before using it, so I shoved it in my armpit for a good 5-10 minutes before firing. Still had the same malfunction.
 
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ridgearms,

Any news? If the headspacing is fine, you've cleaned the bolt/pin/spring of gunk and your ammo is good, and you're still seeing only very small indentations on the primer then I'd think weak spring or "short" firing pin (there are a couple of things involved there, however). If it fires well for the first few shots then starts to falter, it's probably the spring. I had a similar problem with another rifle a few years ago...

Cheers!
 
i've been having a similar problem as well but only with 1 rifle. In my vanguard 22-250 I ran about 30 handloads through it without a problem. I followed up with a bout 20 handloads from my Ruger 30-06. 2 of the 20 didnt go off. There is a mark on the primer but no ignition. Weather was cold the first time it happed (-20 or -25). Last time this happened it was only about -10 or so.

i've pulled the bullets out and dumped the powder. Interested now to see if the primer is faulty or whats going on.
I've also pulled the bolt apart and everything looks good and clean.

First thought was that the primer pockets were really deep or somethign like that.

I'll let you know what I figure out. Not convinced its the rifle.
 
Try this. Take the bolt out of the action and push the firing pin out of its present notch so that it is in the 'fired' position. See how much firing pin is sticking out. Should be at least 40thou. many go as much as 60thou (check with manf on what is correct spec). If you see very little firing pin sticking out the bolt face, that is your problem.

Check to ensure the firing pin is not bent or broken. Given how new the rifle is, spring tension is unlikely a problem BUT it might be rubbing inside the bolt body. Take the firing pin assembly and see if you can slide the unit in and out easily without it hitting or rubbing on anything. If the firing pin spring is kinked it might be rubbing inside the bolt body slowing down the firing pin so it has no force.

Easiest test is to take an EMPTY case and put a live primer in it. Load and fire. You can do this indoors so you know the rifle is warm. If it goes pop and the firing pin indentation is deep, then you have a lube issue.

If there is no pop or you get light indentation. Degrease EVERYTHING and try again. If it still fails AND there is adequate firing pin protrusion, send it back to the factory. The spring or something else inside is toast.

Jerry
 
I had the same problem with my 4x4 I took the bolt apart and clean really well seemed there was a bunch of junk where the firing pin went through the bolt face degreased reoiled with non thickning lube and problem was solved. But this may or may not be the same issue best to send it to a warranty shop
 
how loud of a pop/bang can I expect if I fire off a live primer in an empty case?

I was planning on trying the exact thing with the couple of rounds that didnt go off for me. I've pulled the bullets, and dumped the powder. Just interested if its a problem with the primer or if my bolt was too "lubed up" during the cold weather.
 
It will be about as loud as a starter pistol, which you can muffle quite a bit by shoving the muzzle into some rags on the floor.
Are you thinking about trying the misfired primers again? You won't prove much, all bets are off on whether a second strike will work no matter what the cause of the original misfire was.
 
Mad_Mikee said:
how loud of a pop/bang can I expect if I fire off a live primer in an empty case?

I was planning on trying the exact thing with the couple of rounds that didnt go off for me. I've pulled the bullets, and dumped the powder. Just interested if its a problem with the primer or if my bolt was too "lubed up" during the cold weather.
Click to expand...

Once a primer has been hit it may or may not fire on successive hits.... it has to do with the priming compound "breaking" up within the cup.

A primer is surprisingly loud but if you stuff the muzzle against a folded over rag that muffles it.




I would suggest contacting a warranty depot. That's what they are for.
 
Good advice from all as usual.

For cold weather use, I disassemble my bolts (mauser bolts are really easy to disassemble), degrease and clean them and re-assemble them DRY, no lube.

Never a problem, even at -40C.
 
ridgearms said:
Sorry guys, for those who asked it was a Mossberg 4x4, magazine fed, bolt action.

I left it out because I thought the make of the gun might incite a poor quality or bad quality remark. I just wanted to to know about problems related to function.

That being said, the bolt was cleaned, but certain lubes were not suggested by anyone. Should this have happened on an almost brand new gun?

I should add that the smith told me to try to warm up the bolt before using it, so I shoved it in my armpit for a good 5-10 minutes before firing. Still had the same malfunction.
Click to expand...

The mossberg has this problem all over America, plus the bolt have a habit of flying back and seriously injuring the shooter with factory ammo. If the rifle is new take it back as defective. There is a thread right now in the hunting and sporting arms forum and on the 24hourcampfire.com
 
A buddy of mine has a Ruger MKII .270 that fails to fire at the most inopertune times.The bolt has been stipped ,cleaned and a new Wolff spring added.The SOB still fires when it feels like it.The gunsmith also checked the firing pin protusion and it's fine.I'd have removed the scope and wrapped the rest around the nearest tree if it were mine! All I can think of is replacing the firing pin.....................no patience for garbage...........Harold
 
Tikka 595 doing the same thing - click and no bang, but only when the gun got good and cold. stripped the bolt and degreased and cleaned thoroughly. no more problems.
 
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