The dowel mod is "easily reversible". If you have a rivet or epoxy used to keep the mag from being disassembled, or from having the block taken out, I believe it meets the letter of the law.
History of PMags in Canada for a beginner.
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The dowel mod is "easily reversible". If you have a rivet or epoxy used to keep the mag from being disassembled, or from having the block taken out, I believe it meets the letter of the law.
I fully agree
My point is that the dowel is no better or worse than a piece stuck to the bottom of the follower or a piece stuck to the floor-plate. Both of those are just parts of the mag (not the casing) and they are just as easily removed and replaced making the mag a high cap.
The ONLY item that you are required to alter and that MUST be altered is the Mag Body/Casing. That is the part that must be welded, brazed, riveted, epoxies, etc. in accordance with the stipulations setout in the legislation and based on the material that the mag body/casing is made from.
A modified follower does NOT meed the legislative requirements... again... in my opinion and in the opinion of ever "official" I've ever dealt with (from RCMP in Ottawa to CBSA, etc.).
Mark
ok I disagree with questar...
look at the FACTORY colt 5 round magazines that are plugged via a block inside the magazine body and then a pop rivet in the floor plate.... these are acceptable to the cfc and have been imported by the thousands.
look at the FACTORY colt 5 round magazines that are plugged via a block inside the magazine body and then a pop rivet in the floor plate.... these are acceptable to the cfc and have been imported by the thousands.
ajayofcanada
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If I imported 1000 PMAGS and had to neuter them,I think the rivet is a million times faster and easier than goofing around with epoxy/metal rods/etc.
The more time, effort, and supplies someone is forced to use, the higher the final cost of the PMAG will be. While I think your solutions are inventive and a fun project, I would rather pay the cheapest amount possible for a PMAG.
Which brings up the most important question, where are the PMAGS for the Canadian market? I think it's safe to say that some shops up here in Canada underestimated the potential market for Magpul products.
The more time, effort, and supplies someone is forced to use, the higher the final cost of the PMAG will be. While I think your solutions are inventive and a fun project, I would rather pay the cheapest amount possible for a PMAG.
Which brings up the most important question, where are the PMAGS for the Canadian market? I think it's safe to say that some shops up here in Canada underestimated the potential market for Magpul products.
whats so hard about putting the plastic insert in like rooster has, $4 cost, drill a hole in the floorplate and pop rivet it to make not easily removed.
done deal and your not pop riveting anywhere near the magwell so the mags will fit no matter what.
done deal and your not pop riveting anywhere near the magwell so the mags will fit no matter what.
Simple Question Mark,
1.How can you assume the mag follower is not part of the casing?
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Once again this is another issue that will only truly be solved inside a courtroom. As for $4 cost, that is a 50% increase in cost for most AR mags to the importer. A rivet is 3 cents and 10 seconds. I am just about to received a few k AR mags for the T97, I know which route I will be going.
And yes the M305 mag is block by an extension welded to the follower to limit it travel.
And yes the M305 mag is block by an extension welded to the follower to limit it travel.
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canam... the thing about the pop rivet is it is not 100% the same for every magazine.... I have had USGI mags pinned tight, pinned loose.... pop rivet to small so that with force the follwer will ride over.
and the pinning location depends a lot on what size pop rivet your using as well..... and what follower is in the magazine, USGI black, Green, Magpull anti tilt etc.... plus if you plan on using them in tight magwells you have to file them down till there ishardly anything left.
a pop rivet is just not a 2 second job till you figure out all the parameters....
the blocks are idiot proof... drop them in and your done, I will probably drill mine and zap strap it to the bottom coil so it will not rattle arouud at all.
and the pinning location depends a lot on what size pop rivet your using as well..... and what follower is in the magazine, USGI black, Green, Magpull anti tilt etc.... plus if you plan on using them in tight magwells you have to file them down till there ishardly anything left.
a pop rivet is just not a 2 second job till you figure out all the parameters....
the blocks are idiot proof... drop them in and your done, I will probably drill mine and zap strap it to the bottom coil so it will not rattle arouud at all.
Believe me I know that riveting is a black art sometimes. As for the blocks, they will need to vary in length according to the follower and mag design.
Canam let me see if I have this right, cost of pmag $11 I guess that is dealer cost, cost of insert $4 retail that equals 36%. Now wholesale cost of insert is $3, if you buy 100pcs, that would equal 27%. Let's say final retail with shipping and duty taxes and all expenses, that mag will retail for $30, should only retail $25, I paid $35 and $40 for the ones I have and am quite happy with them and would pay that again. They are the best of the best.
Now let's talk about the T97 mags that you are getting a few K in, cost on those will be if they are from china is $2 maybe $2.50 at the most. Cost of poprivet 10 cents that would equal 5% increase plus all the other costs involved that mag should retail for max $10, but I'm sure it will be more like $20 or more. So your getting an inferior mag with a poprivet in it.
I don't know about evryone else but I like cenario número uno.
Not that I'm nitpicking.
Bottom line is we all want pmags and are working on a way to get them legaly, that is why we are here.
Now let's talk about the T97 mags that you are getting a few K in, cost on those will be if they are from china is $2 maybe $2.50 at the most. Cost of poprivet 10 cents that would equal 5% increase plus all the other costs involved that mag should retail for max $10, but I'm sure it will be more like $20 or more. So your getting an inferior mag with a poprivet in it.
I don't know about evryone else but I like cenario número uno.
Not that I'm nitpicking.
Bottom line is we all want pmags and are working on a way to get them legaly, that is why we are here.
Ok I’ll tell you why it not only meets the spirit of the law but passes the legal litmus test.
A few years ago the late David A. Tomlinson (RIP) from the NFA did a little research for me regarding this type of mag blocking. Via the NFA’s retained legal council he obtained a legal opinion based on the current laws.
The current laws use the term “casing” when describing the acceptable methods for altering a hi cap magazine and thus compliance with Federal regulations.
The word “casing“ is not defined in the Criminal Code and as such it is incumbant upon the courts to refer to the legal definition of the word “casing“.
The legal reference for such determinations is found in the “Blacks Law Dictionary“. However there is no legal definition for the word “casing“ in the said dictionary.
As such one must revert to the most basic of interpretations for the word “casing“ as it applies to the said law.
The word “casing” as defined in the most basic form that is relevant to the said laws is taken from the English Oxford dictionary and is defined as:
casing |ˈkāsi ng | |ˈkeɪsɪŋ| |ˈkeɪsɪŋ|
noun
1 a cover or shell that protects or encloses something : a waterproof casing.
2 the frame around a door or window.
Therefore as you can see the mag follower as well as the mag plate is indeed considered as part of the casing.
Foreign made mags are no cheaper than US made, often more. I just had a quote on 10k mags from the Philippines at US$16 each.
I would LOVE to pay $2.50 for Norc mags, but they are more than USGI from cprod, D&H, etc., just less hassle.
I use the example of T97 to illustrate pinning cost and labour time, nothing more. I wasn't comparing quality, although I think the Pmag hype is a bit overblown.
I would import Pmags, and have considered it, however, availability, DoS hassles, and the fact that they don't work in many guns, stopped me. I am guessing this may be the issue with other dealers.
I would LOVE to pay $2.50 for Norc mags, but they are more than USGI from cprod, D&H, etc., just less hassle.
I use the example of T97 to illustrate pinning cost and labour time, nothing more. I wasn't comparing quality, although I think the Pmag hype is a bit overblown.
I would import Pmags, and have considered it, however, availability, DoS hassles, and the fact that they don't work in many guns, stopped me. I am guessing this may be the issue with other dealers.
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canam, I have been in the manufacturing industry for 21 years now and evrything from china is 25-35% of the cost compared to north America. I'm talking about raw materials, castings, tooling and lots more. I don't see a reason why mags should be different. Maybe their just getting greedy, which is not a bad thing, because I see a lot of our manufacturing industry moving to china and now mexico as well. That will bring some of it back and help out our economy.
Yes, they must be greedy, then. But every foreign AR mag supplier in Asia has been priced higher than USGI, at least they are consistent in their greed.
I actually believe it is a factor of scale, the US is by far the largest producer of AR mags, thus can keep the price down by internal competition. The foreign suppliers are left to themselves because of export controls, thus they price for that market.
As for handgun mags, they are generally cheaper from China.
PS I realized after your manufacturing comment, that you may have been trying to promote your own product, and took my comments as a criticism of them. This was not my intention. I was just running the numbers.
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