7mm and africa

sheephunter said:
A story like that makes a good case for mono-metal bullets or a bigger calibre or a broadside shot.
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Check with your outfitter about your choice of bullets. And you might want to check with Neo as to why he didn't shoot it broadside until the fifth shot.

My experience with Barnes Triple Shock bullets was that they provided excellent penetration (and would be my choice again) but, in all fairness, the eland was an eye-opener. It's no moose.
 
I do find it funny that how when an animals gets away or requires several follow up shots that the instant solution for some is to increase calibre size and all will be fine. Well it won't. Funny, no one ever blames their shot or perhaps choice of bullet......it had to be that they were undergunned. Sorry but more power does not always make things better.
 
A-zone said:
Check with your outfitter about your choice of bullets. And you might want to check with Neo as to why he didn't shoot it broadside until the fifth shot.

My experience with Barnes Triple Shock bullets was that they provided excellent penetration (and would be my choice again) but, in all fairness, the eland was an eye-opener. It's no moose.
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A-zone, I appreciate your comments and take them seriously but I've seen all kinds of animals just stand and soak up lead....with some pretty hefty cartridges. And, I've seen some mighty big critters hit the deck very quickly from some medium calibres. There's no doubt that a large diameter, heavy bullet going at moderate speeds has a lot of penetrating power and that is the premise on which a lot of African calibre choices are based. But, there is a new breed of bullets out there breaking these rules and offering penetration unheard of as recently as 10 years ago. I find it funny how desperately some people cling to outdated theories like sectional density. Modern bullets have made SD all but obsolete. If I was hunting an animal that was likely to turn on me after being shot then I'd opt for all the energy I could comfortably shoot but for an animal that's first response is to flee, penetration of a well placed shot is all that is required.
 
sheephunter said:
I do find it funny that how when an animals gets away or requires several follow up shots that the instant solution for some is to increase calibre size and all will be fine. Well it won't. Funny, no one ever blames their shot or perhaps choice of bullet......it had to be that they were undergunned. Sorry but more power does not always make things better.
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Crying to the mods helped though didnt it. And your still a --- ------ ----
 
asusual said:
Crying to the mods helped though didnt it. And your still a --- ------ ----
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Is it possible that you could add something worthwhile to this discussion or are you content to just sit on the sidelines and hurl insults. I'll give you one more chance to dazzle us with your brilliance and add something constructive to this discussion. I quote once again.....

what part of the big magnum is it that kills so much more effectively
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I can't belive that a 7mm RM and a good bullet, with proper placement, won't kill an Eland. :eek:

They are like a big moose!!

Good bullet + proper place= dead
 
Gatehouse said:
I can't belive that a 7mm RM and a good bullet, with proper placement, won't kill an Eland. :eek:

They are like a big moose!!

Good bullet + proper place= dead
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Their only a bit bigger Gate but much more reciliant. Our moose retire quite easy. These are the biggest of the antelope family. They make a moose look like a turtle on qualudes, thusly the ideal shot is virtually garaunteed not to happen.
 
Maybe you could enlighten us on the actual date that Sectional Density became a non-factor, I call BS on this. Bullet length has alot to do with penetration, that's why the 6.5x55 and various older 7mms were so effective on African game, the longer a bullet is, the deeper it will penetrate, and if it mushrooms somewhat it will still penetrate deeply. This causes more damage to tissue then if it doesn't expand at all. If the caliber is wider and the bullet heavier and longer, then there's more, of what were looking for. Modern bullets tend to either penetrate too deeply without expanding enough, or blow-up too quickly and not penetrate enough. It doesn't matter what formula you use....even Taylor K.O. values scare Barnes bullets apologizers/sponsors.....Length + weight+ diameter=KNOCKDOWN...Period!!
 
Well if you won't answer my other question asusual....here's an easier one....just curious who you hunted with in Africa and what country.
 
7MM Rem

Load a decent bullet like a TSX, A-Frame in 160-175 grs (175 is better)and place your shots as you should and it will be fine. 7mm RM is a good all-rounder like the .30-06.

For Eland? My only one came with a .30-06 220gr factory loaded PMP but worked fine. I have many friends who have taken them with broadside shots with .270 win and up. 7mm RM is not IDEAL but totally adequate with good bullet and stay with a frontal or broadside.

This last Oct a friend took one with 180gr PMP Pro-Amm at 200yrds (.30-06), Eland went 50m and was done.

As a visiting hunter a .338 and up is nice as it provides more penetration and perhaps a bit more margin for error. Lots of PH's prefer .338/9.3..375 class rifles.
 
ben hunchak said:
Maybe you could enlighten us on the actual date that Sectional Density became a non-factor, I call BS on this. Bullet length has alot to do with penetration, that's why the 6.5x55 and various older 7mms were so effective on African game, the longer a bullet is, the deeper it will penetrate, and if it mushrooms somewhat it will still penetrate deeply. This causes more damage to tissue then if it doesn't expand at all. If the caliber is wider and the bullet heavier and longer, then there's more, of what were looking for. Modern bullets tend to either penetrate too deeply without expanding enough, or blow-up too quickly and not penetrate enough. It doesn't matter what formula you use....even Taylor K.O. values scare Barnes bullets apologizers/sponsors.....Length + weight+ diameter=KNOCKDOWN...Period!!
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LOL...I'd say bullet construction and performance plays a far greater factor when talking about penetration than length ever will. If comparing bullets of identical construction, then, as I said before, SD will have some relevance but that's where its usfulness ends with controled expansion bullets. While Taylor's KO values do hold some relevance with lead bullets, again it went out the window when we wrapped jackets on bullets. How rapid a bullet expands is the most critical factor we need to look at these days and there are just way too many variables in that realm for any one formula to have any relevance.
 
Sorry but more power does not always make things better
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Of course not, but if you have to punch through 18 inches of muscle before you hit the vitals, then "more power" certainly is the ethical choice.

FWIW, you may be surprised to find that a broadside shot may not be available. (Of course, you can always turn down a "head-on" shot if you're under-gunned.)

You'd think that all of those folks who have lived and hunted African game over the last hundred years might have developed some experience.

If you really don't want a "magnum", take a 9.3x62.
 
A-zone said:
Of course not, but if you have to punch through 18 inches of muscle before you hit the vitals, then "more power" certainly is the ethical choice.

FWIW, you may be surprised to find that a broadside shot may not be available. (Of course, you can always turn down a "head-on" shot if you're under-gunned.)

You'd think that all of those folks who have lived and hunted African game over the last hundred years might have developed some experience.

If you really don't want a "magnum", take a 9.3x62.
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AMEN.....geez
 
Take what you want and have fun.
An Eland wont kill you - even if wounded. You may have to track the thing for a while - you may even loose it, but that can happen with ANY rifle or bullet.

I myself never prefered the 7mm mag but many, many do, so it doesn't make me right or wrong.

I like the 30 calibers for the antelopes buit have used bigger to some good effect (never smaller yet -- hmmmmmm) - but I had good fun with the 300 weatherby at longer ranges. Its whatever you want - some guys want to sneak up real close and shoot them with a bow or black powder or some other rifle - some want to shoot far

no big deal - its your hunt - go have some real fun with the rifle you want to use.
trust me -- everyone has to track wounded game from time to time. It really is part of the game and gives you something to talk about later. Some of my better stores are about chasing the ones that "should have dropped" but didnt for whatever reason.
 
A-zone said:
Of course not, but if you have to punch through 18 inches of muscle before you hit the vitals, then "more power" certainly is the ethical choice.

FWIW, you may be surprised to find that a broadside shot may not be available. (Of course, you can always turn down a "head-on" shot if you're under-gunned.)

You'd think that all of those folks who have lived and hunted African game over the last hundred years might have developed some experience.

If you really don't want a "magnum", take a 9.3x62.
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A-zone, I'm having a hard time seeing where there is 18" of muscle in the centre of the chest. Get off to one side or the other or too high and I can see it and I can see how that huge dewlap would give the appearance of a chest that was a foot and a half thick but from everything I've seen and read, it just doesn't look that thick. I just called a couple buddies that have killed them and they said no way!

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If you really don't want a "magnum", take a 9.3x62.
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Not sure taking the word magnum out of a cartridge description does much to mitigate recoil.......

You'd think that all of those folks who have lived and hunted African game over the last hundred years might have developed some experience.
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And I've been tapping into it as much as I can, especially those with experience with the gear I'll be using......seems a bit counterproductive spending too much time researching those that hunted with different rifles and bullets than I will be. I might start thinking that theories like SD and KO Factor have relevance to modern jacketed and mono-metal bullets!

Certainly everyone has an opinion on proper calibre/catridge for certain applications but to question someone's manhood or ethics over their choice of a proven cartridge does seem a bit over the top......
 
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i gotta agree with ya sheephunter. it all comes down to a well placed shot. ive seen it many times where a guy with a big bore gun is just widdling the animal down with multiple shots. the only thing i can think of is, he thinks cuz he has a big gun that its just gunna drop. well it aint goin down when ya shoot it in the rear end unless ya got something really big, but then there wouldnt be anything left of it. but everyone im sure will agree that a big calibre will do a better job then that of a smaller size if placed just as well. and im sure everyone will also agree that with a bigger round there is room for more error.
 
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