Seen these crazy shotgun rounds?
- Thread starter Accurate
- Start date
Well, beanbag rounds were found to be pretty lethal by the LAPD unless it was fired from a rifled barrel. The bag needs spin imparted upon it to properly expand and disperse a nonlethal fluid shock wave. If it was fired from a non-rifled barrel the beanbag continued more or less as a projectile the same size as the bore which caused major injuries which often times could be lethal.
Not sure where you heard this but it is untrue. I have been on courses where students were shot with beanbag rounds. We did lots of shooting at various targets as well. None of the bags failed to open as designed. Poorly manufactured rounds may fail, but this is a design problem not a systemic problem with the concept.
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Calgary, AB
In regard to your first statement, gunpowder is classified as a "low explosive" that may be used as a propellant by Encyclopedia Britannica (in addition to numerous other sources that I am unsure as to the reliability of, and thus won't list).
I realise there are significant practical differences between true shaped charges and the gunpowder in shotgun ammunition in their specific purpose (destruction as opposed to propulsion) as well as their specific design; however, I think to say that a shotgun shell is entirely dissimilar from a shaped charge is to get caught up in semantics, and that general comparisons can be made.
Did you take the time while doing your research to investigate the difference between deflagration and detonation? Do you know of any shotgun powders that detonate - or any explosives used in shaped charges that deflagrate?
Did you find - anywhere - instances of shotgun powders utilized as industrial or military explosives? Did you find - anywhere - instances of industrial or military explosives used for shaped charges being used as propellants in firearms?
Permit me a small bit of amusement after reading your comments about the classification of shotgun powders as low explosives in defense of your position and then reading your comments about resorting to semantics.
There is very, very little similarity between smokeless shotgun powders and the explosives used in industrial/military shaped charges - deflagration versus detonation being just one of the major differences. There is absolutely no similarity between a shaped charge and a shotgun powder enclosed in a chamber.
I don't think you'll find anyone who holds a blasting ticket and/or has had any demolitions/breaching courses with the military who will agree with your view that they are generally comparable. I certainly don't.
Ah, our old friend drvrage.
Please feel free to carry on in ignorance. My apologies for disturbing the "everybody knows" attitude that shapes your world. Your posts have often hinted at somewhat of a survivalist mentality... try making a shaped charge out of Blue Dot or Clays and let me know how it goes.
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Thanks, but no thanks. I understand the difference quite thoroughly and have a science background to boot. I was commenting on your condescending attitude rather than helpful advice.
I too have fallen victim/victimizer to it, and I have been corrected by members on the boards here for it. (And the odd mod) CGN is a great place because most of the people are trying to be helpful and sincere. When someone is wrong, they will point it out, without trying to rub their noses in it with an "I'm a fricken genius and you are stoopid" attitude. What I ask, is that we make this board what we want it to be. A Pissing match, or a forum for advice, insight and knowledge.
The ones that were recovered were mostly ok. Maybe not -vending machine- or -parking meter- quality; but to hand to shop keepers, yup.
But not many were recoverable. It's like finding the shot pellets. Occasionally we'd find a few after blasting a rotting stump, or a sheet of drywall brought-out specifically to be a target or a big roast.
Frankly it's not like I fired hundreds of these. I was a young militiaman earning $27/day IIRC, so $12 was a lot to pay for 10 shots.
But not many were recoverable. It's like finding the shot pellets. Occasionally we'd find a few after blasting a rotting stump, or a sheet of drywall brought-out specifically to be a target or a big roast.
Frankly it's not like I fired hundreds of these. I was a young militiaman earning $27/day IIRC, so $12 was a lot to pay for 10 shots.
Oh right... science background. Yet by what you're posting here, you apparently believe that deflagration and detonation are essentially the same thing, and a shotgun charge propelling a shot load is essentially the same thing as a shaped charge.
What science background is that? Naturopathic science? Botany? Agronomy? Sure is hell isn't physics. A 19 year old sapper with nothing other than Grade 12 and a basic demo or breaching course has a better understanding of the subject than you and your "science background"
My involvement here started with my comment that I didn't want anything to do with a company who described shotgun shells as "shaped charges". To wit:
I think I will stay well away from any ammunition manufacturer who believes a shotgun shell's propellant is "really just a shaped charge".
How horribly condescending of me!The other poster begged to argue the point. Which then led to this:
Well, I've had a blasting ticket since about 1974. If you could explain to me how the propellant in a shotgun shell is the same as an explosive shaped charge, I surely would appreciate it. Always willing to learn something new.
Again... how horribly condescending of me!The other poster continued to feel the need to argue they are very similar - a position you apparently agree with. I chose not to concede a view of explosives versus propellant powders which is utterly ridiculous. If for no other reason than people like you might one day get it in your mind that shaped charges can be made from shotgun powders, or perhaps explosives used as shotgun propellants.
And then of course you with your science background felt the necessity to argue that shotgun rounds and shaped charges are essentially the same. Which is still BS, whether it comes from you or the original guy.
Now, if you find it "condescending" that I don't agree with an allegation regarding shotgun powders versus shaped charges being the same thing, then all I can say is...
...suck it up, buttercup. You're wrong. Full stop.
If you can bend that scientific mind of yours to my posts quoted above, you might have a go at explaining how they have an element of "you are stoopid" to them in that razor sharp mind of yours.
Having said that, if you do indeed continue to insist that shotgun loads are essentially the same as shaped charges - hell yeah, you are stoopid.
It is hardly a forum for knowledge when folks like you persist in trying to tell people a shotgun round is essentially the same as a shaped charge. If this is to remain a place for knowledge, crap like that needs to be both addressed and corrected.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I saw a mythbusters where they were testing cannons (similar to a bigger shotgun) with improvised ammo and they found that by far the most damaging thing they could shoot was a length of heavy chain - even more damaging than actual proper cannonball they seemed to think. The length of chain shot might be interesting to try at close range where accuracy isn't critical. And alas, the flechettes are illegal, because there's nothing as cool as flechettes...
