What about barrels?

interested

Bottom line whatever is going to work well and is going to be the most affordable for your customers is going to be the winner Rick. High rate of twist is great for the guys that load their own ammo to take advantage of that twist rate. The majority of guys will be running off the shelf ammo which if I'm not mistaken the majority of which is 55gr. This includes most military ball otherwise we would have to recalibrate our elcans. Build for the majority Rick for the ammo that is readily available then if someone wants a special target AR they can source and pay for the parts accordingly. Barrel length 14.5 to 18 will be great for most applications that these rifles are going to perform in. Remember most ranges in Alberta for example are 300 yards long and this is a restricted weapon so where are you going to take it to shoot that is going to require a fast twist rate or a barrel longer than 18 inches
 
OZZ said:
Rick how about a 18.5 barrel for the HK MR223 in hopes of making it non-restricted?
Click to expand...

if they classify as a variant of ar-15 which is the most likely case, it would be restricted no matter what. So you probably would want to get the 9" in the end since its restricted
 
SigWig said:
Mystic can you explain the differences between ratchet 4 groove rifling and regular rifling?

Is it anything like this polygonal rifling?

250px-



Also
Any chance of making a drop in barrel for the LMT MRP system?
Click to expand...

The belief is that a canted style of rifling - Ratchet, 5R, Polygonal - reduces the graving applied to a bullet jacket as it races down the pipe.

That reduces friction which leads to higher muzzle velocity. Some will also claim reductions is bore wear due to lessened friction.

In truth, all of these rifling methods are over 150yrs old. They came about because the first lead cast bullets DID have a serious problem with tearing apart/leading. These riflings did have some benefit in these applications.

Todays modern copper alloy jacket share none of these issues. Pretty tough stuff.

The BR shooters have tried, over the years, any and every form to get groups to shrink. There has been no clear trend.

Good barrels shoot well. Groove style and number don't seem to have any tangible effect. Certainly, nothing that has been repeatable enough to be considered a trend/norm.

But it is kind of fun to try and as long as there is a demand, someone will supply.

Shilen has no interest in making contours outside the ones they list. They are very happy supplying service rifle end users which keeps them on a nice long 12 to 14wk production backlog.

However, there is no reason why we can't get the blanks and machine them to whatever we want. We don't have the same restrictions the US does when it comes to making barrels.

Jerry

http://www.shilen.com/calibersAndTwists.html

Then open the 4 groove link to see a pic. I would post it if I knew how.
 
For Rick and Mystic........ I am going to talk to the shop that does all of my work on Friday and get some quotes on having AR barrel extensions made in bulk, as we want to make a few custom barrels ourselves. If either of you are interested let me know. I should have pricing in a couple of weeks. We are going to start without the M4 feed ramps, as I don't really buy into the necessity for them.

I have been searching for weeks to buy these things and nobody has stepped up yet and said they had any!!!
 
CyberK said:
For Rick and Mystic........ I am going to talk to the shop that does all of my work on Friday and get some quotes on having AR barrel extensions made in bulk, as we want to make a few custom barrels ourselves. If either of you are interested let me know. I should have pricing in a couple of weeks. We are going to start without the M4 feed ramps, as I don't really buy into the necessity for them.

I have been searching for weeks to buy these things and nobody has stepped up yet and said they had any!!!
Click to expand...

CERTAINLY Please keep me in the loop, I too have found that supply is non existant.
When you get info please email me directly at abtacrifle@shaw.ca
Thanks
Rick
 
CyberK, that is great news. Hopefully, this will allow custom barrels to be produced in Canada. A really good thing. A necessary thing

Can supply lots of blanks whenever it is desired.

Let me know...

Jerry
 
The best AR to put together (for the average enthusiast)

Perhaps someone can confirm my information, or educate me here, but this is how I understand the issue:



Barrels:
- .223 suffers terrible performance degradation from barrels shorter 14 inches, or shorter. (The U.S. Military has learned this the hard way.)
- .223 does "OK" in a 16 inch barrel, but it's pushing it.
- .223 does very well in an 18 inch barrel, and anything lost is neigh unnoticeable for most shooters.
- .223 was designed for a 20 inch barrel. It's very accurate, but it can be a bit long.

Bullets:
- 55gn. = 1/12 twist is optimal (Early .223)
- 62gn. = 1/9 twist is optimal (Improved .223)
- 72gn. = 1/7 twist is optimal (Semi-specialist .223, still somewhat experimental)
- Any other grain is a specialist load, shot one at a time, and not really applicable the average shooter. (N/A)



So the best all-round configuration for an AR-15 chambered in .223 would be:


18in. barrel with a 1/9 twist, shooting primarily 62gn. bullets

[Best balance of most proven, current AR/.223 technology, with an eye to convenience, performance, usability, and the widest range of acceptable median ammunition support]



P.S. I, and a few men that I know who have served in Iraq have concluded together that furniture, and sights should be tailored to the individual shooters preference, and of high quality, but one needs to keep in mind the trap of "over accessorizing." Generally a good butt-stock, pistol-grip, fore-stock, and perhaps "stick" and/or sighting system, but flashlights, bi-pods, magpuls, bottle openers, etc. are to be avoided, as the added weight they throw on is self-defeating. Also, Iron sights should still be heavily relied upon.

That's what I have. Anyone? Anyone? :)
 
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As far as twists go, I think the best twist today is an 8 twist but a true 9 twist will also work. You can shoot all available bullets that will fit in the mag.

Yes, the 75gr AMax and Berger VLDs WILL fit in an AR mag. Excellent target bullets increasing the AR's effective range to at least 1000m. That's as big as you are going to get and still function properly.

70gr Bergers are a no brainer fit.

The 80's are just too long.

If you don't care about a FH, a 20" is a great compromise. 18" will work but as you say, performance drops off hard after this.

For me, I think 22" is the min to get the best from this case.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
Yes, the 75gr AMax and Berger VLDs WILL fit in an AR mag.
Click to expand...

You could stuff 90s to 2.26 too, - you just don't have much (read not enough) room for powder.

mysticplayer said:
Excellent target bullets increasing the AR's effective range to at least 1000m..
Click to expand...

You are stuffing 75 amax to mag length and shooting them effectively to 1000m? what is your criteria for being 'effective'?


Corpus said:
The best AR to put together (for the average enthusiast)

Perhaps someone can confirm my information, or educate me here, but this is how I understand the issue:

- 72gn. = 1/7 twist is optimal (Semi-specialist .223, still somewhat experimental)
- Any other grain is a specialist load, shot one at a time, and not really applicable the average shooter. (N/A)[/I]
Click to expand...

I think this info is way off the mark...
1:7 will shoot virtually any .224 bullet out there. Guns are coming in with 1:9s because 1:7s are getting harder to come by.
If someone had the choice, I can't fathom why they would choose a 1:9 over 1:7. As to making them.....that just doesn't make sense.
 
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Target barrels can be had from the U.S. We need the little fun barrels made up here....the ones we can't get from down south. :)
 
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You are stuffing 75 amax to mag length and shooting them effectively to 1000m? what is your criteria for being 'effective'?
.[/QUOTE]

Inside a large pizza box at 1000m or close to 1.5MOA. Fired from an HK SL8.

Effective enough...

The 75gr Amax over Benchmark still has enough room to move in the case. A great powder for these gas guns.

Jerry
 
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They will look a bit goofy as the case neck is just infront of the bullet taper but there is plenty of neck holding the bullet.

What I like most is that benchmark is not compressed but really close to being, so the bullet can't jam down into the case and cause alot of excitement. Also, the burn rate/gas volume didn't beat up the brass and the HK ran without a burp.

Out of General Rippers HK, the accuracy was great. We just walked the bullets out waiting for them to loose accuracy but they kept dropping right on target. We would have gone further but ran out of elevation on the scope at 1000m.

For those who have shot at the Summerland LR, they will know about the GOPHER. We were shooting at a similar sized stump and kicking up dust at and around it. GOPHER is/was the size of a 2L pop bottle.

Never thought I would see that level of accuracy that far from a box stock battle rifle but it worked and was repeatable.

With all the tuned AR's that are even more accurate (1/2min and better at 200yds and in), I think sub MOA is a real possibility at that distance with that bullet.

I never understood when I read so many articles suggesting the 223 is at best, a 600yd cartridge for hitting stuff (maybe they meant KE???).

Maybe when shooting POS FMJ's but when pushing quality bullets, hitting min of bad guy can be a whole lot further.

Jerry
 
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