- Location
- Kingston, Ontario
In IDPA, how do you "unload and show clear" when using a Browning Hi Power with the magazine safety?
IDPA "Unload and Show Clear" with BHP
- Thread starter MOA_Shooter
- Start date
1) shooter removes magazine
2) shooter locks slide open, SO then inspects pistol to make sure there is no round in the chamber, and that no magazine is inserted.
3) Shooter lowers slide
4) Shooter inserts magazine.... empty or loaded, does not matter
5) Shooter Pulls Trigger and lets hammer fall as normal
6) Shooter removes magazine and holsters weapon
Now a few things about this, notice the magazine can have rounds in it.... it is not a safety problem since the slide should never be cycled after the SO has confirmed the weapon is empty..... so rounds in or out of the magazine is a non issue and it also makes it easier for the shooter with only a few magazines.
the other thing is that in IDPA the shooter follows the SO's range commands.... this means that things happen on the SO's time rather then the shooters.... if the shooter gets ahead of the SO he can and will be told to redo them to the SO's satisfaction.
2) shooter locks slide open, SO then inspects pistol to make sure there is no round in the chamber, and that no magazine is inserted.
3) Shooter lowers slide
4) Shooter inserts magazine.... empty or loaded, does not matter
5) Shooter Pulls Trigger and lets hammer fall as normal
6) Shooter removes magazine and holsters weapon
Now a few things about this, notice the magazine can have rounds in it.... it is not a safety problem since the slide should never be cycled after the SO has confirmed the weapon is empty..... so rounds in or out of the magazine is a non issue and it also makes it easier for the shooter with only a few magazines.
the other thing is that in IDPA the shooter follows the SO's range commands.... this means that things happen on the SO's time rather then the shooters.... if the shooter gets ahead of the SO he can and will be told to redo them to the SO's satisfaction.
Use a barney mag, when the one round is in the chamber hand the now empty magazine to the RSO.
After you're done the stage and asked to unload and show clear do so, then ask the RSO to hand you back the empty mag. Slide down, hammer down and holster....
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
At our club, I will have the shooter empty a mag into my hand if he/she does not have an empty one, then continue with the "unload and show clear" command.
now you are asking a shooter to manipulate a magazine with rounds in it.... while they are holding a gun, and taking time.
the time thing is not an issue but there is ZERO reason why they have to have an empty magazine.... and asking them to unload a magazine while holding thier gun in my opinion is unsafe, to much of a fumble factor for zero positive gain.,
more then likely they would be trying to manipulate rounds out of thier magazine with thier weak hand which adds further problems...
or they are concentrating on unloading the mag and not where muzzle is...
the ONLY issue of loading a mag with rounds in it is if they cycle the action. much easier for the SO to watch for that then try to catch rounds while joe blow unloads his magazine and fumbles his pistol around because now he is concentrating on something different that takes gross motor skills.
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Now, the reason for dropping the hammer at the end of the unload and show clear is that it is the final proof that the gun really is unloaded. It has happened, and probably will again, that the gun went bang at this point...if you just stuck another loaded mag in the gun, what did you just accomplish?
the chamber is clear.... was proven clear by the SO , the mag loaded or not has no bearing on what the competitor does to drop the hammer unless of course he cycles the slide.
IF he cycles the slide after inserting a magazine, either empty or loaded then the SO should/would make him go right back to step one in the unload and show clear commands.
now who's fault would it be if the gun went bang again ?? the SO would be just as at fault as the competitor and I/We would hope that the SO would have eagle eyes on the gun when the competitor inserts a loaded magazine and stop them if they attempt to cycle the slide.
not as simple.... then your getting them to holster half way thru the unload and show clear command.... what does that enforce ??
plus it goes beyond the SO's protocols and training.... we are to make the competitior show clear BEFORE holstering.
just as an aside,
we can argue this 100 different ways.... the fact of the matter is that both ways and all ways are acceptable to IDPA Canada, each club and each SO will have to find the way that is most comfortable to them and their membership.
no way is the for sure way, and no way is 100% foolproof.... but all of the ways described here are as safe as another, as you yourself said guns have gone BANG when they shouldn't have.... luckily not at our club, but I am sure it will happen eventually. that is why the gun is treated as loaded till it is hammer down and holstered.
our club thru guidence from IDPA canada chooses the loaded mag, or empty mag approach... whatever the shooter has available.
end of story, and sorry for being so mean to you steve d.
we can argue this 100 different ways.... the fact of the matter is that both ways and all ways are acceptable to IDPA Canada, each club and each SO will have to find the way that is most comfortable to them and their membership.
no way is the for sure way, and no way is 100% foolproof.... but all of the ways described here are as safe as another, as you yourself said guns have gone BANG when they shouldn't have.... luckily not at our club, but I am sure it will happen eventually. that is why the gun is treated as loaded till it is hammer down and holstered.
our club thru guidence from IDPA canada chooses the loaded mag, or empty mag approach... whatever the shooter has available.
end of story, and sorry for being so mean to you steve d.
Actually you are making the competitor show clear before calling the range safe. Holstering is done since that is the safest place for the gun to be.
The same procedure is done when topping up the gun before starting. Chamber a round, remove mag, holster gun, top up mag, remove gun from holster, insert mag, reholster.
If a competitor cannot holster and unholster safely, it probably is not the right sport for that shooter.
- Location
- Prince George B.C.
I usually shoot an M&P9 with mag safety. I insert a mag to drop the hammer when clearing my weapon. More often than not it is a partially loaded mag. So what?
As long as you don't cycle the gun a round can't be chambered.
I have no idea how many times I have performed this operation with guys like Bob and Wes as SO's and there has never been a problem. They understand the mechanics involved and so do I.
Seems simple to me.....if it bothers you don't use a loaded mag. Personally it doesn't bother me at all and I will continue as long as it is legal for IDPA.
John
As long as you don't cycle the gun a round can't be chambered.
I have no idea how many times I have performed this operation with guys like Bob and Wes as SO's and there has never been a problem. They understand the mechanics involved and so do I.
Seems simple to me.....if it bothers you don't use a loaded mag. Personally it doesn't bother me at all and I will continue as long as it is legal for IDPA.
John
