M-14 sighting in

Rick65Cat

Rick65Cat

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Ok, here was my day...
This is after trading up the scope from a Bushnell Trophy 3-9x40 to an Elite 3200 3-9x40. Also cuttiing the length of the picatiny Milarm mount back about 1 inch to get scope to fit better. Letting the rifle sit on the firing line before shooting so as to let all metals cool and contract then making sure all screws were tight. (The actual mount screws are loctited in) Also installed is a Marstar stainless op-rod spring guide....This gun went through Hungrey's Spruce Grove seminar back in Nov(?)

First target was 25 yrds, 1 inch increments...shooting for grouping

25yrds.jpg


Then its out to 100 yrds...:bangHead:
Is it REALLY the godamn ALUMINUM mount????

100yrds.jpg
 
Many norincos will shoot like that. Some can be tuned down using out of the box components, others will need some parts replaced to get around a fundamental problem.

Now, that said, these rifles are not easy to scope right. I am not familiar with the mount you are using, but how does it shoot with irons?

You mention the course tuning. Is the flash suppressor on tight?
 
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Something aint right. I can shot your 25yard group at 100 yards with irons on my friends Norc M14.
 
I thought the consensus from all the users that have been there before us,was to stay away from the light duty mounts. I remember Hungry saying ( at the Nov clinic) they were good for minute of moose and that's about it. Sorry your having so much trouble.I'm in the process of mounting my smith #2006 mount.Hope I don't go through the hell you are.
 
How many shots through the rifle? Until the barrel has been broken in, essentially polished by the bullets, it will be erratic. I bought a second hand rifle a while ago. The last owner had botched bedding the synthetic stock, but it had all the right extra parts I'd been looking for, and he'd fired a few hundred rounds. That is 200-300 shots (at how many cents apiece?) I don't need to invest in that barrel.
 
Yep - sumfin rotten in Denmark

Nice shotgun performance at a hundred ! Wish my 870 could do that --;)

Something is loose - and bouncing -
 
Hungrified !

Barney tuned Norcs should shoot 1 inch at a hundred with the right fodder. As the barrel heats it stretches. As it stretches the whip changes and the groups open a little , but drop a lot. My tuned norcs shoot the first 3 into a cluster , the next cluster a little lower etc. until I get a 1 inch by 4 inch strip of holes.
Your group is generally rising - something is loose - somewhere.
 
I got 1" @ 100yds using SA ball out of the box. Haven't had a chance to retry since the SG clinic tune-up.
 
Are u benching ?

carbonrod said:
1 inch at a hundred is optimistic for a norc. At least if you are talking about any significant amount of shots, and considering both accuracy and precision.
Click to expand...

Of the many Norcs I have Hungrified - every single one has shot one inch at a hundred - On my good days - WITH IRONS!
There are some on this site with my rifles who can attest to it ---
The 1 inch is cold barrel by the way - when they get hot they drift - unless you have a Viron pressure bearing stock -
PING is everything !
 
-Shooting off of a front rest while sitting, no rear rest just my shoulder.

-Using American Eagle 150gr FMJ.
-Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x40 scope.
-B-Square "low" aluminum rings.
-Mount is exactly like Marstar's part # M14-103 (aluminum)
-Marstar stainless steel op-rod spring guide.
-The rest of the rifle is factory original.

-The flash hider is rock solid tight.
-At the seminar, this rifle did NOT need shimming, or any tighter split pins.
-The only thing not done was to bed the stock, index the barrel (was determined not to require indexing) or use polishing compound on the trigger.
-Using factory stock.
-As of today, there have been 119 rounds fired.

When shooting after the seminar, at 50 yrds I was getting 4 inch groups while free standing using the iron sights.
I've only ever used smaller caliber rifles, 6.5x55, 7.62.39...a .308 to me, is a big bullet and I may have flinched a bit at the seminar.
But bench resting with a scope, the groups SHOULD be tighter!
 
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Rick65Cat said:
-Shooting off of a front rest while sitting.

-Using American Eagle 150gr FMJ.
-Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x40 scope.
-B-Square "low" aluminum rings.
-Mount is exactly like Marstar's part # M14-103 (aluminum)
-Marstar stainless steel op-rod spring guide.
-The rest of the rifle is factory original.

-The flash hider is rock solid tight.
-At the seminar, this rifle did NOT need shimming, or any tighter split pins.
-The only thing not done was to bed the stock, index the barrel (was determined not to require indexing) or use polishing compound on the trigger.
-Using factory stock.
-As of today, there have been 119 rounds fired.

When shooting after the seminar, at 50 yrds I was getting 4 inch groups while free standing using the iron sights.
I've only ever used smaller caliber rifles, 6.5x55, 7.62.39...a .308 to me, is a big bullet and I may have flinched a bit at the seminar.
But bench resting with a scope, the groups SHOULD be tighter!
Click to expand...

Your rifle sounds Hungrified good - try cheap UMC ammo - if same - I would say the scope mount is bouncing - the only mounts worth anything are arms sadlak etc. -- some marstar junk can be made to work for a little while - but almost like rebuilding a norc --
 
OOPS missed it -- should read more carefully

chopper 1 said:
Your rifle sounds Hungrified good - try cheap UMC ammo - if same - I would say the scope mount is bouncing - the only mounts worth anything are arms sadlak etc. -- some marstar junk can be made to work for a little while - but almost like rebuilding a norc --
Click to expand...

Banana wood - Chu forest wood shoots for a while then the bedding area opens due to the soft wood and the rifle is no longer bedded----
 
chopper 1 said:
Of the many Norcs I have Hungrified - every single one has shot one inch at a hundred - On my good days - WITH IRONS!
There are some on this site with my rifles who can attest to it ---
The 1 inch is cold barrel by the way - when they get hot they drift - unless you have a Viron pressure bearing stock -
PING is everything !
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have read your full original post. "My tuned norcs shoot the first 3 into a cluster , the next cluster a little lower etc. until I get a 1 inch by 4 inch strip of holes." I would call that a 4 inch group, which is very respectable for a norc, and better then many I have seen.

There is a really awesome post on the problem with 3 shot groups here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218

The USMC standard for a tuned M14 is 6 inch at 300y. That is 3 10 shot groups. I would be tickled pink if I could get a norc to shoot 2 MOA in both accuracy and precision without increasing its weight.
 
Rick65Cat said:
-Shooting off of a front rest while sitting, no rear rest just my shoulder.

-Using American Eagle 150gr FMJ.
-Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x40 scope.
-B-Square "low" aluminum rings.
-Mount is exactly like Marstar's part # M14-103 (aluminum)
-Marstar stainless steel op-rod spring guide.
-The rest of the rifle is factory original.

-The flash hider is rock solid tight.
-At the seminar, this rifle did NOT need shimming, or any tighter split pins.
-The only thing not done was to bed the stock, index the barrel (was determined not to require indexing) or use polishing compound on the trigger.
-Using factory stock.
-As of today, there have been 119 rounds fired.

When shooting after the seminar, at 50 yrds I was getting 4 inch groups while free standing using the iron sights.
I've only ever used smaller caliber rifles, 6.5x55, 7.62.39...a .308 to me, is a big bullet and I may have flinched a bit at the seminar.
But bench resting with a scope, the groups SHOULD be tighter!
Click to expand...
If you were offhanding 4 inch groups at 50 with irons, then I have to say it is probably the scope/mount.

Some of the factory norc wood stocks are not bad, and if yours is bedded right(assume so if from the clinic), you are limiting some of the other culprits.

Is the oprod rubbing anywhere?
 
Remember

carbonrod said:
Sorry, I should have read your full original post. "My tuned norcs shoot the first 3 into a cluster , the next cluster a little lower etc. until I get a 1 inch by 4 inch strip of holes." I would call that a 4 inch group, which is very respectable for a norc, and better then many I have seen.

There is a really awesome post on the problem with 3 shot groups here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=279218

The USMC standard for a tuned M14 is 6 inch at 300y. That is 3 10 shot groups. I would be tickled pink if I could get a norc to shoot 2 MOA in both accuracy and precision without increasing its weight.
Click to expand...

G I acceptance was 5 1/2 inches at a hundred -(or was it 4 1/2?)
But there is a difference between a round 5 inch group and a 1 inch group that is a 4 inch long verical strip -- indicitative of barrel stretch due to heat--
 
Mine has a Leatherwood mount and a USGI walnut stock.

With the same scope (bushnell 3x-9x) and shooting from a bipod with SA Surplus ammo, I can shoot 1" groups consistently at 100 yds, and I can hit the gong at 300 yards with almost every shot (19 out of 20 last time).
 
Also, part of the problem likely lies with your technique off the bench--need sadbags front and rear if you are going to get any consistancy at all--makes a significant difference--trust me I knoww :).


44Bore
 
Just got off the phone with another gun nutter...I'm going to bed the stock. As well..discovered the f***ing gas nut was barely finger tight.

Carbonrod, I kinda suspect the mount might ultimately be my problem. Which would really suck after giving Milarm over $200 for it.
The scope is brand spanking new.

This is turning into a moneypit when all I wanted was a "cool" inexpensive big game gun. I shoulda just bought a Savage .308 bolt gun. :mad:
If this bedding job doesn't cure my woes, I might just pull the scope and use it on my 6.5x55 1913 Swede, then index the M-14 barrel and use the peep sights.
 
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