Chinese Proof Testing

Claybuster

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Does anyone know how the Chinese proof test their shotguns?

Europe has a long standing proof system that is recognized within the European Economic Community and around the world. There are proof houses in most countries that make guns including Spain, England, Italy, Belgium, Germany and France. I have been fortunate to visit the proof houses in Eibar and Birmingham and they take their gun testing very seriously.

In America, SAAMI, an industry cooperative, sets proof requirements to ensure the strength and safety of American-made shotguns and SAAMI is by all accounts reliable and respected.

But what of China? We know the Chinese turned a blind eye to melamine in milk, laced children's toys with lead and seemed totally unconcerned about sending poisoned pet food to North America.

But what about their guns? Is there a Chinese proof system and if there is does anyone trust it to prevent a gun from blowing up in your face?
 
i have never seen a firearm from china underbuilt.i suspect whoever built it has to fire it.or my second guess ,i know lets send them all to canada!!
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
Good question - CB. I would hope they at least perhaps mimick the standards set by manufacturers in an ex-combloc country such as Russia.
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I would hope so too but even the Russkies have a recognized proof system. Russia is a member of CIP (Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives) meaning their proof system has met international standards approved by the CIP. Russian guns are therefore approved for sale in Europe where proof standards are very high. Even American guns need to be reproved before being sold in a CIP country.

I have checked my proof reference books and could find nothing on China. They are not a member of CIP.

Another troubling aspect of these Chinese guns was the remark below from another thread. It raises the question where the Chinese are getting their oil and stock finishing materials. If their industries will poison the milk of their own children I suspect they don't care much about what may be in that oil before they slop it on to a gun meant for you.

BigDotGlock said:
One thing that bothers me, I expect Chinese guns to show up dripping in oil but, does anybody else find this batch of oil has a hint of horse shyte smell to it?:confused:
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http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2859777&postcount=356

Who knows where this oil came from but given China's track record and extensive use of PCBs (and worse) washing it off with my bare hands in my own house isn't something I'd be too keen on.
 
I concur, all valid points no doubt.

If those firearms have been manufactured in alignment with the metal build/finish quality that has been observed on the Norc M305s (for example)then I would'nt be greatly concerned. Having said that, I do agree that a recognized standard of Proof definitely needs to be adhered to.

I certainly do agree on the potential for concern in terms of the chemicals used for wood finish.

On a positive note, I also feel that the Canadian business establishments have been doing a very good job of providing diversity that in turn is definitely attracting more a younger crowd of firearm enthuiasts.

We all recognize, that in the present day, there are already enough barriers in the way of operating a firearms business and I would certainly like to think that importers here would have carried out all requisite checks to avoid any/all further hassles.
 
Ahsan Ahmed said:
I would certainly like to think that importers here would have carried out all requisite checks to avoid any/all further hassles.
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I would like to think that too and was hoping one might offer some insight into what the proof testing process in China is and what checks they may have made.
 
I just provided some sample of very common hardwood floorings(traditionals/Bamboo/laminates) for independend testing for VOC content.

I will not name brands involved but I was suprised to learn the chinese Bamboo I frequently sell actually rated low. but not "green" due to the formaldahyde content as a preservative.

What I was shocked to learn, was that ALL of the American made products tested claiming to be low VOC... ALL FAILED. Names you have all probably purchased for your own houses, one of which sells it product based on its VOC and low formaldahyde content.

To sum up, ALL oil is bad for you, period. worrying about the oil on a gunstock seems relatively silly, compared to the floors and walls to touoch and walk on each and everyday.
 
Ask john from marstar he know everything.
Being the bigest importer on norinco in canada i would say he must have some testing data, as i,m sure if he had a Kaboom in a marstar imported norinco, a canadain lawyer would go after him 1st and norinco 2nd.
just my $0.02
bbb
 
From Internet:

"
Not so long ago, it was common for fumes to drive people from their homes during repainting. Most conventional paints contained high levels of VOCs (volatile organic compounds) that produced a breathable gas when applied. The VOCs diminish air quality, and may be detrimental to your health. Today, alternative manufacturing techniques have allowed the development of low- and no-VOC paints that release no, or minimal VOC pollutants, and are virtually odor free.

Paints, adhesives, and other protective finishes are often formulated with solvents (or VOCs) to improve performance and durability. Additionally, paint cleanup often requires toxic solvents that release additional VOC pollutants. However, increased awareness of possible health risks and overall air quality concerns has led to a demand for products lower in VOCs. Manufacturers have therefore risen to the challenge, mainly by developing high-quality, latex-based coatings and adhesives for a wide variety of uses. Latex paints use water as their solvent and carrier, allowing both easier cleanup and generally lower toxicity than oil-based paints. Today, latex paints are equal or better in quality and durability than conventional oil-based formulas. Many stains and clear finishes for floors and cabinets are also commonly available.

It should be noted that not every latex-based coating is low in VOCs. Products may be described as low-VOC when they off-gas significantly less than other products. Some oil-based paints qualify as low-VOC because their formulas have been modified. VOC levels are expressed in pounds per gallon (lbs/gal) or grams per liter (g/l). Interior paint is given a Green Seal if it has a VOC content less than 50 g/l (for flat sheen) or 150 g/l (non-flat sheen).

For persons who are particularly sensitive, or have strong concerns about air quality, most major manufacturers now offer special no-VOC paints that are odorless and completely "VOC-free."

"
 
VOC is "volatile organic compound"... not a stupid question

for an example that hits home to most people. Oil based paint vs latex based paint... Latex has lower levels of VOC's and therefore it is less invasive when you are using them. The VOC arguement goes much deeper than those two items, but everyone has worked with oil and latex paints
 
Claybuster said:
I would like to think that too and was hoping one might offer some insight into what the proof testing process in China is and what checks they may have made.
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For sure, they owe it to their client base (and to themselves) specially in view of many of the inexperienced and more over-enthusiastic end users who may envisage such firearms as capable of providing .50 BMG like fun/performances :D
 
I get the feeling that Chinese gun manufactureres don't have proof systems for their guns because they never lead. They don't invent or improve anything....yet. All they do is take proven system from elsewhere and manufacture them more cheaply.

Some of the cost savings is from cheap labour, some is from cutting corners and some is from not having any overhead designed to make sure they don't poison their babies for a quick buck.

The point is that they will try to build a gun like the m14 and like the 870 and like the 1911. But when you buy American you know that you are buying from a country that has the overhead to ensure minimum standards are met. It is not just name you are paying for.

The Chinese business climate is dog eat dog. Take nothing for granted as you can and will be cheated in a heartbeat in order to make a quick buck. The formerly communist government does not have the systems and checks and balances put in place to be able to enforce common business standards. I'm not knocking Norinco, but you get what you pay for and this includes consumer protections, testing, liability frameworks, insurance standards and a general consensus that people are valuable and are not treated as disposable because you simply have 2.2 billion of them.

Buying something based on price does not mean you get junk, but it does kill a lot of the overhead that gave users peace of mind. Even if it wasn't Norinco that screwed you, maybe it was a sales manager for the steel foundry who sold Norinco a "lesser" batch of steel used in the manufacture of said goods.

I don't shop at a dollar store for a reason. It is not anti-chinese rhetoric. I welcome them to the global trade community. But when I shop, I do so for value, not for price. The Chinese currently can only compete on price. When it comes to food, or guns, I say no thanks.
 
From what I got from the net, the manufacturer/factory of those shotguns ISN'T a contractor of Norinco. I Think Canam is dealing directly to the manufacturer instead of the supersized middleman-Norinco. But how can a shotgun manufacturer majorly cater for the "domestic" market obtain their exporting permit (of firearms!) is still a BIG unknown!

Do I really care if they(cheap Chinese made guns) kaboom on my face?...let's go for a net search to see which brands are popping up with kaboom more often....
 
Claybuster said:
Another troubling aspect of these Chinese guns was the remark below from another thread. It raises the question where the Chinese are getting their oil and stock finishing materials. If their industries will poison the milk of their own children I suspect they don't care much about what may be in that oil before they slop it on to a gun meant for you.



http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2859777&postcount=356

Who knows where this oil came from but given China's track record and extensive use of PCBs (and worse) washing it off with my bare hands in my own house isn't something I'd be too keen on.
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Nobody else seems to have noticed that particular odor on their shotgun, mine may be an anomaly. None the less, I know the smell of a horse stall, that's what it smells like. A friend of mine made the same remark on Saturday. Every Chinese gun I get seems to be bathed in a different type/smell/consistency of oil, this one did have a little extra black residue on the plastic though.

I can't say it really worries me, nor does it make me any less likely to buy Chinese guns in the future. As for other safety considerations, you bring up valid points I had not considered.
 
My chinese guns (NP34/SKS/M37clone/HP9) may have had a hint of cosmoline, but never anything reminiscent of manure.

Ah well my Outlaw should be here this week so we'll see.....
 
Thank you for Claybuster for letting me know of this thread.

AFAIK, overpressure proof testing is not done on civilian small arms in China. However since most are sold in Europe, they will meet the various European proof requirements.

AFAIK, the oil used is a standard petroleum based medium weight oil. No cow dung present. Any odd smell is likely the combination of the poly used on the stocks, the wood and oil.
 
CanAm said:
AFAIK, overpressure proof testing is not done on civilian small arms in China. However since most are sold in Europe, they will meet the various European proof requirements.
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If they are sold in European countries belonging to CIP (most do) they must meet CIP proof standards meaning EACH gun whether domestic or imported must be proof tested if it does not carry proof marks from another CIP member.

So the answer is there is no proof testing in China.
 
Claybuster said:
So the answer is there is no proof testing in China.
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Each plant is different. For many, no proofing is done (the same goes for many plants in the USA), for the military plants, I believe they do random testing to meet military specs.
At one plant we visited the Police inspectors we very thoroughly inspecting the guns in their shipment with the engineers.
 
We just spoke to the folks at the shotgun factory regarding proofing. Contrary to my previous belief, they do proof all the guns that leave the plant. One round per barrel is an overpressure proof load, then another is fired which is a high recoil round to test structural strength.
 
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