Hitting a Pie Plate at 400 yards

[msg.drew]

If you can see your pulse at 100 imagine what that little movement you see in your scope at 100 looks like at 600 and throw some extra magnification on and its like 10 times worse.
With a good range finder and a good scope with some type of either tactical or target knobs and some practice dialing them in it can get quite easy to make the bullet get out to those ranges even with wind... but making them hit what they are supposed to is up to you and its the hard part..

For example if you have a scope like this you can go on the net and print out a custom ballistics table based on a variety of elements like bullet weight, speed, elevation these will help you get on paper then fine tune it and write down the final out come... then you have your own precise ballistics table. For example my setup 60 clicks gets me on target at 600 yards when the rifle is zeroed at 100... the bullet is droping 95 inchs at that distance this is something you cant do with a hold over...

 

[Boomer]

Oops!

 

[Steeleco]

If our range had more than 200 yds I'd be willing to try, but unfortunately that's it!

Still I'll seldom take shots over 200 if there's chance for a sneak closer.

 

[Boomer]

I will never claim 100% performance, not at any range, but I do consider myself a competent if unspectacular shot. Having said that I have made some very nice shots and I have made some spectacular misses. I shot at a small caribou at 75 yards and shot under it, I simply out-thought myself, and expected the bullet to rise into the chest. The boo was a bit closer than I expected, and the bullet hit right where I held, cutting hair under the chest but left no blood in the snow. Perhaps the shot I'm most proud of was my warthog that was running flat out quartering away left to right at about 150, and I dumped him left handed, without so much as a twitch out of him. I would insist that the boo shot was not typical, I can't claim that I could pull off the warthog shot on demand. I've made successful shots on varmint size game beyond 600 yards, though not often, and I recall hitting a crow in flight with a .22 as it flew right to left at about 50 yards. When shooting seals in the spring with a hunting rifle, the tendency is to over estimate the range and shoot over them. This seldom sends them down their holes, and you sometimes get a second chance; the target is small though as you need a head shot or they flop into their holes and are lost.

In the scenario that you have described, 10 shots on an 8" target at 400 yards, in calm, bright warm conditions, with a target rifle pre-sighted for the range, I would say that yes I can do that. Under similar conditions with my 16X scoped target rifle, I have hit 4 consecutive clay birds set out on our berm at 850. I have made some decent shots on paper or gongs out to 1200. Other days aren't so good, but while I have worked at becoming a decent long range marksman with a target rifle . . .

this

is not this.

But when the targets are small and live, to anticipate better than a 50% hit/miss ratio at long range, particularly once the critters have been disturbed, as would be the case when varmint hunting, is optimistic. Shooting crows at long range seldom provided a second chance if your first shot missed. I've shot lots of gravel and branches trying to score on them.

 

[X-fan]

Boomer,

Clarity is a good thing!

I thought you were saying you couldn't consistently hit a 8 inch target at 400yds (in good conditions) with the top rifle.
Hope I didn't offend you in the process of asking!

Just for further clarity...
My long range hunting rigs (beyond 300 yards) look like the top rifle.

My standard hunting rifles (like the bottom one with fixed turrets) I keep to a 300 yard max.....250 yards is better. I find it almost impossible to hit consistently without a fixed reference point (18 inches of drop is exactly where?)....I have practiced the Kentucky elevation method and have been somewhat successful out to 450 yards....Somewhat being the operative (and unacceptable) word....It is much more difficult than it would at first appear.

I do have a hybrid rifle I will comfortably stretch to 400 yards and will test it out to 600 to see how I do....Though I think 400 yards will be my limit of this combination.

 

[Calum]

What I meant when I was talking about 'hold over' was not not blindly aiming, but using set range markers in a scope.

I still prefer the idea of having ones scope set up for the load one is using, and zeroed to 100 meters, then use a good combat scope rated for said cartridge such as this...

[/IMG]

Personally I can't see how someone is going to have the time to sit and fiddly with dials on a scope and a rangefinder...Might be good for an ambush hunter sitting in a blind or a in a tree stand, but personally I prefer stalking down deer paths.

Maybe someday someone is going to build laser range finding and bullet drop info into one scope...We certainly have the technology.

Thanx for the scope info Gatehouse, I'll look into it.

 

[Gatehouse]

Personally I can't see how someone is going to have the time to sit and fiddly with dials on a scope and a rangefinder...Might be good for an ambush hunter sitting in a blind or a in a tree stand, but personally I prefer stalking down deer paths.

Maybe someday someone is going to build laser range finding and bullet drop info into one scope...We certainly have the technology.

Thanx for the scope info Gatehouse, I'll look into it.

If you are stalking down deer paths, and shooting at close range, you don't need a LRF or fancy scope.

You usually have plenty of time when you see a deer at 400 yards, if he hasn't seen you. If you need to rush, it probably means the deer is runing away, and you shouldn't take that shot at that distance anyway.

 

[X-fan]

If you are stalking down deer paths, and shooting at close range, you don't need a LRF or fancy scope.

You usually have plenty of time when you see a deer at 400 yards, if he hasn't seen you. If you need to rush, it probably means the deer is runing away, and you shouldn't take that shot at that distance anyway.

Well said.

Killing game at long range requires care, attention to detail, and is a deliberate process. There is no room for snap shots here.
From my experience the reticles that are range specific are only good for 400-450 yards at best. I have never been able to group well or consistently with these. The ones I have tried were affected (substantially) by light conditions and this showed up in groups vertically strung....POI was all over the map.

No explanation sorry....It might be my eyes?

 

[Boomer]

Boomer,

Clarity is a good thing!

I thought you were saying you couldn't consistently hit a 8 inch target at 400yds (in good conditions) with the top rifle.
Hope I didn't offend you in the process of asking!

Just for further clarity...
My long range hunting rigs (beyond 300 yards) look like the top rifle.

My standard hunting rifles (like the bottom one with fixed turrets) I keep to a 300 yard max.....250 yards is better. I find it almost impossible to hit consistently without a fixed reference point (18 inches of drop is exactly where?)....I have practiced the Kentucky elevation method and have been somewhat successful out to 450 yards....Somewhat being the operative (and unacceptable) word....It is much more difficult than it would at first appear.

I do have a hybrid rifle I will comfortably stretch to 400 yards and will test it out to 600 to see how I do....Though I think 400 yards will be my limit of this combination.

Over the last few days I've been shooting my ghost ring and post sighted .30/06, and at a measured 300 yards I kept my hits in what would be the kill zone of a big game animal, but I would never shoot at live game with irons at more than half that range except in an emergency. Interestingly though, while the '06 group strung out vertically, the horizontal dispersion was exactly the same as with my scoped .375, about 2". The '06 load was Remington 180 bulk bullets above a load of 3031, and my practice .375 load is with the Hornady 270 gr IL sptizer over H-4350.

 

[X-fan]

Over the last few days I've been shooting my ghost ring and post sighted .30/06, and at a measured 300 yards I kept my hits in what would be the kill zone of a big game animal, but I would never shoot at live game with irons at more than half that range except in an emergency. Interestingly though, while the '06 group strung out vertically, the horizontal dispersion was exactly the same as with my scoped .375, about 2". The '06 load was Remington 180 bulk bullets above a load of 3031, and my practice .375 load is with the Hornady 270 gr IL sptizer over H-4350.

That is some fine shooting with ghost ring sights.

I get a lot of vertical with irons....Think it is a problem with aligning the post to target the same every time.....Nothing like iron for offhand shooting!

How do you find your eyes are coping with irons as you age? I have pretty much resigned myself to scopes.

 

[bogie]

That is my problem too X-fan. 60year old eyes. Just put a Williams peep on my Marlin Glenfield 30-30 to see how I do and will get some Leverevolution ammo to see how that works too. I already have a scoped 30-06 and a 308 but would like to take a run at irons too as I am poor in that area. I have the regular sight on the Williams-are there other choices of aperture I should be looking at or maybe look at changine the front bead?

 

[Camp Cook]

That is some fine shooting with ghost ring sights.

I get a lot of vertical with irons....Think it is a problem with aligning the post to target the same every time.....Nothing like iron for offhand shooting!

How do you find your eyes are coping with irons as you age? I have pretty much resigned myself to scopes.

I'm turning 50 this year and eye issues are part of my problem as well I have a fairly severe eye condition called Kereticonus which is the thinning and drooping of cornea's and have been on a cornea replacement list for several years now.

Thats right guys I shoot like I do and I can't see...

A few years ago I completely stopped using iron sights and swapped/changed scopes to increased the power of all of my scopes to make it so I could continue shooting to the level of precision that I was used to example if the rifle had a 1 - 4X I increased the power to 2 - 7X or 3 - 9X I changed up too 4 -12X or 4.5 - 14X.

Then I found ghost ring sights and installed them onto my Marlin 1895GS I don't even put a scope onto this rifle any more and I can group under 6" @ 150 yards leaning against a tree for a rest.

With a ghost/peep sights I no longer have too try and focus on 3 points I only have to focus on 2 points the front sight and your target and the target can be blurry so I'm only really focusing on the front sight.

 

[Omega]

Long range rigs usually have a 200 yard zero, I have a couple at 300 yards, most of the reason is the scope. Even the Swarvo with the Ballistic Turret has a maximum of 45" of adjustment, you need a long zero to have any adjustment left to get way out there, even so the BT is done around 6 or 700 yards. The Rapid Z by Zeiss is a Ballistic Reticle and it comes in 600, 800 and 1000yard models. Even faster than the Swarvo the Rapid Z really is some cool technology and it charts are based on a 200 yard zero.

 

[Boomer]

That is some fine shooting with ghost ring sights.

I get a lot of vertical with irons....Think it is a problem with aligning the post to target the same every time.....Nothing like iron for offhand shooting!

How do you find your eyes are coping with irons as you age? I have pretty much resigned myself to scopes.

I have entered the wonderful world of diabetes and my eye sight has actually improved, which I am told is not the normal procedure. If I knew that was going to happen I'd have hit the CocaCola and ice cream harder in my younger years. I wanted to go back to shooting irons, and a post is certainly easier for making small adjustments on a target than is a bead, but as I said, I'm not quite there yet.

Edited to add . . .

A trick I've learned is to use a round bull that appears to be the same width at its widest point as your front post. As long as your front sight post matches the width of the bull, you are holding center. The target I was using had a square aiming point, (military folks might recognize it as the FN-C1 100 yard sight in target) and I was having trouble getting the same sight picture for each shot when holding center, and my eyes were tearing up too badly to get a consistant 6:00 hold.

 

[.Ben]

i cant say ive ever tried it our range only goes to 100 yards (yeah i kno) so looks like i need to find an abandoned gravel pit or somehting somehwere where i can get some long shots in....