XP100 action - What trigger guard for use in a rifle?
- Thread starter Obtunded
- Start date
The trigger mechanism will be a factor in which trigger guard to use. Single shot or repeater is also a factor. If its a single shot, with a 700 configured trigger mechanism, most any guard would be suitable. With a 600 trigger mechanism and a repeating action, a metal aftermarket 600 guard would be appropriate.
And as hs has pointed out, an XP100 stays restricted, even if completely reconfigured as a rifle.
And as hs has pointed out, an XP100 stays restricted, even if completely reconfigured as a rifle.
My experience in Canada has been you can make a rifle from an XP100 pistol and when it is completed it can be registered as a non restricted rifle.
I did this with about 6 XP100's back in 1970 or so at Barotto Sports in Calgary.. The RCMP at that time first thought you could not do that but it was pointed out the law states the opposite... you can not convert a rifle to a handgun. It does not say you can not convert a handgun to a rifle.
Now if that law has been changed would someone post that information and document it.
I did this with about 6 XP100's back in 1970 or so at Barotto Sports in Calgary.. The RCMP at that time first thought you could not do that but it was pointed out the law states the opposite... you can not convert a rifle to a handgun. It does not say you can not convert a handgun to a rifle.
Now if that law has been changed would someone post that information and document it.
When I tried this in the 90's the Powers That Be point blank refused to reclassify the firearm as non-restricted. Contacted the NFA, they criticized the official position, which contributed nothing. I still have the letter of refusal, and the NFA letter somewhere, don't know if I could find them.
It would be good idea to get a written ruling before investing any time or money in such a project if non-restricted status were an issue.
I know that if an XP100 based firearm was imported configured as a rifle, it would clear as non-restricted, because it was never registered as a handgun in this country.
It would be good idea to get a written ruling before investing any time or money in such a project if non-restricted status were an issue.
I know that if an XP100 based firearm was imported configured as a rifle, it would clear as non-restricted, because it was never registered as a handgun in this country.
I don't understand what they are basing it on. Back in 1970 the law was quite simple. If the law has not been changed they have to allow it... but how do you make the police obey the law?
If the law has not been changed and I was younger and had an XP100 ... it is a project I would pursue. I'd pester them to no end. I bet those XP100's I converted back in 1970 are still being used as rifles today...
Bureaucratic wrangling aside (I don't concern myself with that stuff), the trigger guard can be a simple ADL model providing the action is located correctly in the stock and the right trigger is used. Be advised, the front guard screw is located differently on the XP and it is not uncommon to redrill the hole for that. There is no rear screw hole in the tang so that may have to be addressed as well if you want one there.
If you use a Remington 600 trigger, the front of the receiver has to be located as if it were a 600. If you use a 700 trigger, the front of the receiver is located as if it were, you guessed it, a 700. Generally speaking, you are as well off to simply attach the trigger guard to the stock; locating it as required. Regards, Bill
If you use a Remington 600 trigger, the front of the receiver has to be located as if it were a 600. If you use a 700 trigger, the front of the receiver is located as if it were, you guessed it, a 700. Generally speaking, you are as well off to simply attach the trigger guard to the stock; locating it as required. Regards, Bill
Ian, I have an ADL guard I will send you.
XP-100... I have two of these. One 6.5x55 and a 284. Both are built as F-open rifles. Both are restricted. I have worked through this quite a few times and the statement I recieved from the firearms tech was "once reqistered as a restricted, always a restricted" no matter the fact that it now is 50" long and weighs 20 lbs. I even had one of these rifles at the Kamloops gun show as a display piece. I took it into the registration booth and asked the "pro's" what they thought of the pistol, they were as baffled as me and were sure that it's classification could be changed. So Guntech somewhere, sometime the rules were changed and I now have to very "awkward" and large handguns.
XP-100... I have two of these. One 6.5x55 and a 284. Both are built as F-open rifles. Both are restricted. I have worked through this quite a few times and the statement I recieved from the firearms tech was "once reqistered as a restricted, always a restricted" no matter the fact that it now is 50" long and weighs 20 lbs. I even had one of these rifles at the Kamloops gun show as a display piece. I took it into the registration booth and asked the "pro's" what they thought of the pistol, they were as baffled as me and were sure that it's classification could be changed. So Guntech somewhere, sometime the rules were changed and I now have to very "awkward" and large handguns.
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My dance card reads the same. I have a switch barrel XP100 rifle, and the bureaucrats simply refuse to reclassify. Cuts into the coffee break time I guess, or requires too much actual thought. Commie liberal voting zombie bastards! - dan
So can you post the legislation that made that happen?... because it wasn't always that way...
I have just sent an email to the RCMP "registry"... hopefully an answer soon. Pasted below:
Could you please see the appropriate department receives this.
I am a gunsmith and have been for over 40 years.
Back about 1970 when I was working as a gunsmith for Barotto Sports in Calgary we converted 6 Remington XP-100 pistols that were registered as pistols and chambered for the .221 Fireball cartridge. We removed the pistol barrel and pistol stocks and then installed rifle barrels and rifle stocks on these receivers. At that time we had them removed from the handgun registry through the RCMP. At first we were told by someone processing the paper work that it could not be done, but after re reading the firearms legislation he realized that a rifle can not be made into a handgun, but that a handgun can be made into a rifle. At that point they were all "deregistered" and the serial numbered action became non restricted.
I have been told that the registry in no longer allowing registered handguns to be altered to long guns. If this is true could you please quote the legislation that prevents this conversion. Just to be clear this is not about making a handgun from a rifle, it is the opposite - the making a non restricted single shot bolt action rifle from a non prohibited handgun.
Thank you for your attention to this.
Dennis Roy Sorensen
1077 Verdier Avenue
Brentwood Bay, B.C.
V8M 1E6
Phone 250 652-5610
email drsorensen@telus.net
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Thanks Dennis. Let us know what they say. - dan
Bad news confirmed...
My original email:
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:08 PM
To: Canada Firearms Centre - Centre des armes à feu Canada
Subject: converting a bolt action handgun
Could you please see the appropriate department receives this.
I am a gunsmith and have been for over 40 years.
Back about 1970 when I was working as a gunsmith for Barotto Sports in
Calgary we converted 6 Remington XP-100 pistols that were registered as
pistols and chambered for the .221 Fireball cartridge. We removed the
pistol barrel and pistol stocks and then installed rifle barrels and
rifle stocks on these receivers. At that time we had them removed from
the handgun registry through the RCMP. At first we were told by someone
processing the paper work that it could not be done, but after re
reading the firearms legislation he realized that a rifle can not be
made into a handgun, but that a handgun can be made into a rifle. At
that point they were all "deregistered" and the serial numbered action
became non restricted.
I have been told that the registry in no longer allowing registered
handguns to be altered to long guns. If this is true could you please
quote the legislation that prevents this conversion. Just to be clear
this is not about making a handgun from a rifle, it is the opposite -
the making a non restricted single shot bolt action rifle from a non
prohibited handgun.
Thank you for your attention to this.
Dennis Sorensen
His reply:
Sir
Thank you for your inquiry. Your are correct in your last paragraph below, that it is not permissable to change the legal classification of a handgun from restricted to non-restricted by configuring the frame/receiver into a rifle. The supporting legality for this is in the Criminal Code of Canada, s. 84, definition of a handgun. Please not the wording "whether or not is has been redesigned or ..." .
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_III//en#anchorbo-ga:l_III
"handgun"
«arme de poing »
"handgun" means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands;
To paraphrase the above in relation to your question, "once a handgun, always a handgun."
To clarify your first paragraph, it is possible to configure your rifle into a handgun by changing its' characteristics, however as soon as you do so and it becomes a handgun it will be of the restricted class, and despite any later re-configuration, it will always remain a handgun.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
George Fraser SSM, CD.
Canadian Firearms Program
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
My response:
Thank you very much for this information.
Is it possible to tell me when this law;
("handgun" means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands)
came into effect?
I was wondering how we were able to deregister the handguns described below back in the 1970's. This must not have been in effect then?
Dennis
His reply:
I believe it was 1995.
My original email:
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:08 PM
To: Canada Firearms Centre - Centre des armes à feu Canada
Subject: converting a bolt action handgun
Could you please see the appropriate department receives this.
I am a gunsmith and have been for over 40 years.
Back about 1970 when I was working as a gunsmith for Barotto Sports in
Calgary we converted 6 Remington XP-100 pistols that were registered as
pistols and chambered for the .221 Fireball cartridge. We removed the
pistol barrel and pistol stocks and then installed rifle barrels and
rifle stocks on these receivers. At that time we had them removed from
the handgun registry through the RCMP. At first we were told by someone
processing the paper work that it could not be done, but after re
reading the firearms legislation he realized that a rifle can not be
made into a handgun, but that a handgun can be made into a rifle. At
that point they were all "deregistered" and the serial numbered action
became non restricted.
I have been told that the registry in no longer allowing registered
handguns to be altered to long guns. If this is true could you please
quote the legislation that prevents this conversion. Just to be clear
this is not about making a handgun from a rifle, it is the opposite -
the making a non restricted single shot bolt action rifle from a non
prohibited handgun.
Thank you for your attention to this.
Dennis Sorensen
His reply:
Sir
Thank you for your inquiry. Your are correct in your last paragraph below, that it is not permissable to change the legal classification of a handgun from restricted to non-restricted by configuring the frame/receiver into a rifle. The supporting legality for this is in the Criminal Code of Canada, s. 84, definition of a handgun. Please not the wording "whether or not is has been redesigned or ..." .
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_III//en#anchorbo-ga:l_III
"handgun"
«arme de poing »
"handgun" means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands;
To paraphrase the above in relation to your question, "once a handgun, always a handgun."
To clarify your first paragraph, it is possible to configure your rifle into a handgun by changing its' characteristics, however as soon as you do so and it becomes a handgun it will be of the restricted class, and despite any later re-configuration, it will always remain a handgun.
Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
George Fraser SSM, CD.
Canadian Firearms Program
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
My response:
Thank you very much for this information.
Is it possible to tell me when this law;
("handgun" means a firearm that is designed, altered or intended to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands)
came into effect?
I was wondering how we were able to deregister the handguns described below back in the 1970's. This must not have been in effect then?
Dennis
His reply:
I believe it was 1995.
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Isn't the above quote the most arrogant, outrageous & unreasonable statement you have ever heard?
If only our marshmallow criminal justice system were as rigid & autocratic with criminals.
Ever get the feeling that these people AREN'T gun owners friends?
That feeling is right.
They're obviously not interested in listening to reason.
What would be the difference be between a Remington model 7 with a 18.5" barrel and a converted XP-100 (also a bolt action) with a stock and a 18.5" barrel? ...............certainly nothing from a public safety perspective.
The RCMP always have and always will be interested in restricting and eventually eliminating the ability of Canadian civilians to own and use firearms.
To the RCMP there is only one faction of society that the government should allow to possess firearms other than in times of war.........THEM !
The desire of police to eventually eliminate the ability of ordinary Canadians to possess guns has nothing to do with public safety ........it's an elitist, POWER thing.
The position of the Association of Chiefs of Police publicly supporting the Registry bespeaks their attitudes on civilian firearm ownership. These people aren't naive or stupid enough to believe that the Registry deters or solves crimes or that civilian gun owners are in any way responsible for shootings perpetrated by violent criminals. They do realize though that the Regisry will be a very useful tool when a future government authorizes them to do what they have always wanted to do......totally disarm private Canadian citizens.
If they had their way every firearms licence would be revoked and every gun in civilian (non military & police) control would be prohibited & seized.
This might not be a popular opinion but it's MY opinion and it's not meant to be offensive but nakedly factual.
I judge people and classes of people by their observed behavior, not by their lofty public policy statements.
I could chocolate coat this post to make it more politically correct & palatable to some but that is not the nature of the pricedo beast.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
This is even more interesting when you consider that TC single shot carbines are sold as unrestricted hunting guns without any issue. These started life as handguns and the rifle versions came later, yet you can still purchase very short barrels for these as far as I know. A TC Contender or Encore pistol would be even shorter than the original XP-100, and both are still manufactured as pistols. Well, there I go again expecting the gun laws to make sense . . . sounds like you guys fell into the same trap. FWIW, I don't understand why the XP-100 ever had a restricted classification anyway, particularly if we consider the short version of Dlask's 870 that is unrestricted.
weatherby cfp are over 26 inches long and are restricted for reasons that i can not fathom. dlask smd12 were considered restricted with pistol grips but unrestricted with fullstocks even though they came with pistol grips originally.we are stuck with badly written laws that are open to interpretation.the bad news is you can be criminally charged if you run afoul of this murky mess.
