.223 effective for humans but not deer

A .223 will kill a deer, usually, eventually. But that's not how we hunt. If you are in need of food and have nothing else, you'd shoot it with .22shorts as in H4831's example or snare it or club it if you could. But for "sport" hunting, we are trying to get a humanely quick kill with one shot to the vitals, so hunting regulations tend to require a more potent cartridge that increases the chance of that effect.

As a former professional soldier, I really don't believe that my predecessors who once upon a time had to choose a new cartridge, chose the 5.56mm NATO for the reason that we would wound the enemy rather than kill them, calculating that it would take more resources to extricate the wounded and care for them. I am sure they were aware of that idea, and didn't think it was entirely worthless, but the primary goal of having an individual soldier shoot an individual enemy combatant is to take that individual enemy out of combat, whether wounded or dead. (We teach our own that to help our wounded we must win the fight, so we don't rely on the enemy to stop fighting immediately to care for his wounded. By the time he diverts the extra resources to care for his wounded it doesn't help us if we are already defeated.) The secondary objective is to at least disrupt the enemy's activity, by making him take cover.

There is always a compromise. Although a bigger bullet with more energy would be more effective if it hits, the 5.56mm offsets that advantage of larger cartridges in more than one way. Being smaller and lighter, the individual can carry significantly more ammunition and the logistics system can supply him with more ammunition, which means more opportunities to shoot the enemy or at least keep making them take cover so that they can't shoot you or maneuver. And compared to previously used larger cartridges, it is easier for most people to shoot accurately (wounding an enemy is certainly better than missing him, even if it doesn't divert other enemies to care for him) with the lighter weapons and lower recoil that is possible with the 5.56mm cartridge , so that also increases the opportunities to put enemy combatants out of combat, whether by killing or by wounding them.

So the 5.56mm is believed to be effective on humans because it can achieve these things - rather different from what we would want it to do to a deer.

i do agree, i'm just trying to justify buying a mini14... kind of expensive for a plinker, which is what it would be if it's too small for deer as i doubt they have the accuracy for gopher
 
Mini 14 rules out perfect shot placement past about 100 yds. Buy a used Rem. varmit gun with a big scope and shoot him in the ear if you feel you must, with a 1/2 moa gun on a rest it will no doubt kill Deer. Far from my idea of hunting.
 
What's the matter, didn't get the answers you were wanting in this thread, so you started a new one? :D


Serously though, why choose the .223(if even legal due to hunting regs) when better options are available? If you are in a pinch sure, but you seem to be thinking about buying a gun so why not choose something better than the .223

just trying to stir the pot a little, and no i didn't get near the response from that thread as i thought i would, i guess there are no mini14 fans on this site...i thought for sure there would be all kinds of accurizing tips. looking for a deer rifle in a caliber which could be used for varmint and there is a maximum .260 bore bylaw for the municipality i live in.
 
Mini 14 rules out perfect shot placement past about 100 yds. Buy a used Rem. varmit gun with a big scope and shoot him in the ear if you feel you must, with a 1/2 moa gun on a rest it will no doubt kill Deer. Far from my idea of hunting.

if a deer was more than 100 yards in most of the areas i hunt, u wouldn't even see it. i would not expect to shoot over 100 yards in the bush and i certainly wouldn't take a 200yd shot if the gun was incapable of grouping at that distance. i believe in practicing and knowing what ur effective range is.
 
223 caliber

hey buddy I have heard the boy;s fighting in Iraq have to shoot the enemy several times at times to kill them . I used to hunt ground hogs and unless I was useing softpoint or hollow points sometimes I would have to shoot them several times till they crowked . not good . one shot one kill . so back to the story . I ran into a guy at a gunshow in the US and he told me he uses his AR 15 to hunt Deer and Boar but he uses a ballistic tip bullet or a nosler bullet - partition . it is a little light for killing things but will work with proper bullet placement . not my choice in caliber . 7.62X51 works beautiful . :dancingbanana:
 
Mini 14 rules out perfect shot placement past about 100 yds. Buy a used Rem. varmit gun with a big scope and shoot him in the ear if you feel you must, with a 1/2 moa gun on a rest it will no doubt kill Deer. Far from my idea of hunting.

or you could shoot them in the heart/lungs wiht a Nosler Partition or Barnes TSX :)
 
not an issue with a 223 and likely not an issue killing most any animal with the right shot and bullet from a 223 . As long as you can get penetration which you can, and it has little to do with diameter or energy retention.

Do not get confused with killing effect vs stoping power!
 
hey buddy I have heard the boy;s fighting in Iraq have to shoot the enemy several times at times to kill them . I used to hunt ground hogs and unless I was useing softpoint or hollow points sometimes I would have to shoot them several times till they crowked . not good . one shot one kill . so back to the story . I ran into a guy at a gunshow in the US and he told me he uses his AR 15 to hunt Deer and Boar but he uses a ballistic tip bullet or a nosler bullet - partition . it is a little light for killing things but will work with proper bullet placement . not my choice in caliber . 7.62X51 works beautiful . :dancingbanana:

it honestly isn't my first choice in caliber neither... just looking for an excuse to get a mini14:D
 
it honestly isn't my first choice in caliber neither... just looking for an excuse to get a mini14:D

Um...not to get off topic...but you do realize that you can't hunt deer with a center fire rifle in Southern Ont. :redface:

And even if I could rifle hunt deer...223 would not be my 1st choice. ;)
 
Um...not to get off topic...but you do realize that you can't hunt deer with a center fire rifle in Southern Ont. :redface:

And even if I could rifle hunt deer...223 would not be my 1st choice. ;)

i just want a rifle that i am allowed to target practice with and possibly varmint hunt with that is also a suitable rifle for deer woods if i do decide to go rifle deer... it isn't that hard to fathom someone wanting a caliber with more than one use is it?:confused:
 
That story has two messages one of which a newbie may fail to notice.

The first is that a .22 calibre centrefire loaded with a properly designed big-game bullet will kill a deer.

The second is that in order for the first to work the shooter has to be a hunter not prone to buck-fever, have great shooting skills on animals under field conditions, and must have the patience to wait for the perfect presentation.

Great post.
 
Deer don't wear body armor, you just have to have to be a little more discriminating on which shots to take.

There is a guy I have heard about, never read anything official, that has taken down numerous big game with a .223, I think he is up north somewhere.
 
Many seem to question the effectiveness on humans.

RG

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IMHO the .223 is better left for the groundhogs and yotes.
Why send five rounds of .223 when one round of .308 would work better?


What is so hard to believe?It's a fact that the military considers wounding capability,as well as killing capability when choosing weapons.


The wounding thing has been a PC myth since WW2.
In reality solders are trained to shoot to kill not shoot to wound.
 
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hey buddy I have heard the boy;s fighting in Iraq have to shoot the enemy several times at times to kill them . I used to hunt ground hogs and unless I was useing softpoint or hollow points sometimes I would have to shoot them several times till they crowked . not good . one shot one kill . so back to the story . I ran into a guy at a gunshow in the US and he told me he uses his AR 15 to hunt Deer and Boar but he uses a ballistic tip bullet or a nosler bullet - partition . it is a little light for killing things but will work with proper bullet placement . not my choice in caliber . 7.62X51 works beautiful . :dancingbanana:

I don't know what kind of ground hogs you have been shooting but the ones I have shot with .223/5.56 55gr FMJ's included have been completely disemboweled. Never had one that didn't meet its end instantly.
 
I don't know what kind of ground hogs you have been shooting but the ones I have shot with .223/5.56 55gr FMJ's included have been completely disemboweled. Never had one that didn't meet its end instantly.


I wouldn't feel disadvantaged in any way using a .22 LR on a groundhog. Shot placement.
 
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