Powder for VERY soft loads

SuperDave

SuperDave

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I am trying to figure out a very soft load for a .45 pistol I've recently purchased but I need a new powder. I have W231 and Hodgdon Clays but none of them seems to be appropriate.

W231 is very consistent in my volumetric powder measure but it leaves unburnt powder residue due to the very soft load and this residue will eventually cause jams.

Hodgdon Clays on the other side burns entirely and cleanly. However, being a flake type powder, the loads are very inconsistent in the volumetric powder measure. And this makes the pistol function unreliably and inaccurately.


Is there a non-flake type powder out there that burns better than W231 in soft loads and still measures well in a volumetric powder measure?
 
3.8-4 gr Clays under a 230 gr is a pretty sweet load for 45 ACP. I have loaded thousands with that recipe on a Dillon without any powder flow/feed issues. How many grains are you trying to measure ? Much less than 4 may be problematic but you would need to really tweak ( lower weight springs, polish job ) to get anything less than about 3.5 to be usable in a 1911 style gun. You may be in better shape in a polymer/Al slide gun but I would not trust it.
Look at it this way if Clays is +/- 0.2 grains from the measure - than at 4 grains nominal you are +/- only 5 % maybe a problem with F-Class match ammo but unlikely with pistol unless you are a top ranked shooter. If you are tyring a lower charge - 3 grains than that is more of an issue.

I am not certain you can get much softer in a 45 ACP to shoot than 4 Clays under a 230 ? Slower than that any your accuracy goes south for other reasons.
 
Too little clays could be the problem apparently. My load was 3.7 gns of clays. I'll try 3.9 gns of clays next weekend.
 
What sort of function problems are you getting ? What about bullet type ? If feeding is the issue, what OAL are you running - maybe a bit longer ? If ejection is the issue I suspect not enough 'mojo' in the load for the spring. What gun are you shooting it in, do you know the weight of the recoil spring ?

I have generally found that faster ( muzzle velocity ) is more accurate in 45 ACP and that may be your problem with Clays a 3.7 to 4 grain load of a fast powder like Clays will make pressure quickly but still have a 'slow' muzzle velocity. That said I use 4 grains under a 230 FMJ for PPC and it is plenty 'mechanically' accurate enough for my shooting. I have not crono'd the load but figure it to be on the slow side around 700 FPS. From a rest ( hand held ) at 10 yards 2-3" groups.
 
Waterboiler said:
I have generally found that faster ( muzzle velocity ) is more accurate in 45 ACP and that may be your problem with Clays a 3.7 to 4 grain load of a fast powder like Clays will make pressure quickly but still have a 'slow' muzzle velocity. .
Click to expand...

I ended up sweetening the loads by using light bullet and loading it with unique or universal powder close to a maximum. Makes soft-recoiling reliable cycling ammo. Volumetric measuring are still not very accurate, in fact I do not know of any volumetrically loaded accurate load. By accurate I mean kind of grouping I am getting with my target 22 pistol. I can only get close to this kind of grouping with weighing all charges, painfully slow process but makes an impressive show at the range.
 
Sry I should've mentioned the whole details. The pistol is a STI Rangemaster and the bullets are 200 gns FP copper plated.

I've tried 3.9 and 4.1 gns of Clays today.

Cycled fine although the recoil was way more than what required to cycle the action and seemed more consistent but the accuracy was disappointing (I group smaller with my sig P220 which works fine with hotter 231 loads).

I guess I'll have to try different powders. So you say WST will burn much better than w231 and not leave unburnt powder residue when used in a very soft load?
 
My guess is that your Rangemaster needs more speed. For that I would look at 231 or Titegroup but nether will be super clean ( 231 being worse ) or very soft. I have not experimented much with Titegroup in 45 ACP lots in 40 but I do find it better for full power ( more speed ) loads. Start at the bottom end of the book and work up. From the Hodgdon site the low end of TG ( 4.4 grains ) is at the top end ( 4 grains ) of clays for speed. My 'medium' load is 4.6 TG around 800 fps up from ~700 with clays.
 
I can't understand what is wrong with Win 231...
Over the years I tried all kinds of powders and now this is the only one for all my pistol calibers, exept 44 mag.
here is a target from my 45 auto pet load, shot last saturday...

002.jpg


200gr SW lead Mastercast
5.3 gr Win 231
Rem. brass
Win LP primers

shoots very well in my plain jane CZ 97, as well as in my STI Spartan...
this load is so light, that the empty shells fall just beside my right food; from both pistols.
 
At 25m that looks pretty great, about a 2.5" group. Short of a machine ( Ransom ) rest I doubt you will do much better at that distance. That groups more than well enough for the 'action' pistol games and may even be adequate for Bullseye - at least that would outshoot me.

I think the OP was looking for softer loads - I suspect 5.3 grains of 231 would be considered close to a full power load.
 
polaris said:
I can't understand what is wrong with Win 231...
Over the years I tried all kinds of powders and now this is the only one for all my pistol calibers, exept 44 mag.
here is a target from my 45 auto pet load, shot last saturday...

(pic)

200gr SW lead Mastercast
5.3 gr Win 231
Rem. brass
Win LP primers

shoots very well in my plain jane CZ 97, as well as in my STI Spartan...
this load is so light, that the empty shells fall just beside my right food; from both pistols.
Click to expand...

I had good accuracy with W231 but I was using a much softer load than yours and this caused the W231 to not burn completely and leave unburnt powder residue which eventually caused jams. (Residue would get in chamber and prevent the next cartridge from fitting in the chamber). A load like the one you used would damage my pistol due to the very soft recoilmaster spring.

I've ordered some WST powder and will try that. If it doesn't work, I'll switch to 185 gns bullets so I can put more velocity behind it.
 
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