New RC Supreme... ugh! (with vids)

kombayotch

kombayotch

Super Moderator
Moderating Team
Rating - 100%
192   0   0
Location
Ohio
My friend recently bought a Rock Chucker Supreme (new Made in China version). He sent the Rock Chucker supreme back, saying it was junk.

Today, he showed me the issue it had on the floor model at Cabels's (watch it in full screen):
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b...essive Slop/?action=view&current=P1040808.flv
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b...essive Slop/?action=view&current=P1040807.flv
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b...essive Slop/?action=view&current=P1040805.flv

My old RC doesn't do that and neither does his new Big Boss. These presses have some minor movement only. That kick-out at the top of the stroke happens when the press over-cams. Its different than the slop you see in some of the cheaper presses in that it kicks out with a good amount of force. It isn't just slop, its applying a sideways force to the base of the cartridge. I don't think it would have a huge effect when FL sizing since the web of the case would resist it. But with neck-only sizing, it was causing some good sized run-outs. And this was with a Redding Competition Neck Sizing Die (the fancy one with the mic). Fired brass that only had 0.0005" of neck runout was coming out with 0.002-0.004" of neck runout. That's fine for hunting ammo, but it just doesn't cut it for precision shooting.

This not the same animal as the RC of yesteryear... but people are buying it because of the old press' reputation.
 
After seeing that video I'd be getting a Redding if I was looking for a new press. I suppose this means that replacment parts for the older RC's aren't to be trusted either, as it is the relationship between the ram and the handle linkage that causes the off set, rather than a problem in the casting. If RCBS wishes to remain the dominent power in the handloading industry, they had better fix this and fast. Winchester was the dominent rifle producer in the US market until the introduction of a cheapened M-70, and RCBS could very well suffer the same fate.
 
I don't know if they all do that... my friends did, the display model did and so far one person who has seen the video found that his did.

Definitely something to check before bringing it home if you do buy one..
 
I think they know about it, but have calculated that its cheaper to produce it in China and just replace the few that people notice. We pointed this out to the clerk at Cabela's... his response #1: "I don't see anything...", response #2: "Awe... that won't do anything."

The problem is with the over-caming in the linkage, but the movement is only possible because of slop between the casting and the ram.

I do have one complaint about the Big Boss. The stop pin (that prevents over-caming) is just a roll pin, which deflects. If you're precessing brass quickly, you end up with variations in headspacing when sizing and OAL when seating. You should be able to replace it with a solid steel pin though. Its a standard size hole. Bit of reaming might be required.
 
Last edited:
Very disappointing that such a good press has been sabotaged by lowered standards.

Unacceptable. Glad that you pointed this out.

Also glad that I got my Rockchucker 20 years ago.
 
Guess it depends what you're loading on it... for anything precision oriented, I's get rid of it altogether. For pistol and plinking ammo, it isn't going to hurt you.
 
cellfishracing said:
just checked mine brand new and does not do it either, smooth and straight
Click to expand...

X3

My Supreme's stroke is nice and straight.

I did try loosening the mounts to the bench and found that if the press was re-bolted slightly canted one way or the other then one side of the toggle stop would hit the bench first and cause a bit of "wobble" at the top of the stroke. Even then it had less play than what you will see with the typical case to shellholder fit.
 
If I buy a brand new RockChucker Supreme Master Kit from Cabelas.com, what are the chances that it will have this? How long have they been made in China?

I don't want to drop $450 on a kit with a defunct press
 
A little wiggle in a press is fine... It ensures that everything lines up.
If there were no wiggle and somethng was out of alighnment, well... then you'll have a problem.
 
The old Rock Chucker I just sold had a little movement, and no that didn't cause any issues. But that was just play. This is a hard movement to the side caused when the press cams over. Force is applied laterally to the ram, it is being held fairly tightly in that forward position. This movement in the new Rock Chucker my friend bought sure did cause him headaches. Cases with less than 0.001" of neck runout were coming out with 0.002-0.005" of runout. And this was out of a Redding Competition neck sizer.

Many won't notice any issues because of one or all of the following reasons:
-Their rifles and/or reloading techniques aren't accurate enough to show the difference a few 0.001" of neck runout makes.
-They don't measure things like runout, so they've never compared rounds with high runout to rounds with low runout.
-They're only shooting at short ranges where it won't show very much (our local range is 1000 yards)

If you want to quantify how good a particular press is (specific unit, not brand since you only have one sample), you need to measure its output with the proper tools.

P1040820-1.jpg


P1040823.jpg




We compared several presses, plus my RL550, which is not shown.

P1040811.jpg


P1040814.jpg


We undertook our little experiment after my friend got burned by the new RC. One press stood out: the Forster Co-Ax. It consistently give runouts under 0.001" with the occasional 0.0015" flyer. Neither of the two O-ring presses (old RC and Big Boss) had any advantage over the Dillon (up to 0.0025" flyers). The arbor press with the Wilson dies was only marginally better than the Dillon (up to 0.002" flyers), but the Co-Ax still beat it. Again, this only speaks for these specific units, not brands in general. Several of us are now switching to it after confirming the results on multiple Co-Ax units. Others who do measure these things have shared similar results, which is why the Co-Ax is well respected in the circles of those who do measure. I'm sticking with my RL550 for my bulk precision loading, but getting one for range use.

But I digress... the point is: if you aren't measuring meaningful things like runout, sayings like: "mine works fine" or "its a great press" are empty statements. For hunting rifles and pistol ammo, what you see in the video isn't going to make a difference. For precision ammo, it most certainly will.
 
Incidentally, I just bought a Hornady LNL AP to replace my RL550 because I wanted the auto-indexing and the case feeder. It was like this:

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b...essive Slop/?action=view&current=P1040796.flv
http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b...essive Slop/?action=view&current=P1040797.flv

I sent it back to Hornady and when I got it back they had done nothing to fix it which was very disappointing after I paid to have it shipped back to them (right after I bought it). I ran some brass though it and it's a runout machine. Brass with 0.001" or less of neck runout, comes out with 0.002-0.004" of runout every other round. This is also with a Redding Competition bushing die. Needless to say, it went back since I want to do more than pistol rounds on my progressive.

This is what I mentioned about the stop on the Big Boss:

P1040815.jpg


This can cause a good amount of variation in seating depth and headspace if you aren't really consistent on your stroke. It deflects quite easily.
 
Last edited:
667 said:
A little wiggle in a press is fine... It ensures that everything lines up.
Click to expand...
Well... no. As soon as a ram moves to one side, one can at least see the base of the round going out-of-square with the rest of the case.

The free-play that one needs is in the shell holder. Note that the shell can move a little bit in the holder, ensuring that the shell aligns with the die rather than the holder.

The ram etc. should be as tight as possible, and the linkage needs to be tight and repeatable in motion, both by design and manufacture.

For example, kombayotch just pointed out a design flaw in the redding big boss: the stops will flex unpredictably resulting in uneven force applied to the base of the shell. A better design is a cam-over linkage, where the force is just a matter of moving the arm slightly past the point of maximum pressure.
 
Wow, that is a real shame. All in the name of profit. I don't see the retail pricing dropping even with the off shore production.

I have been using the new Lee breech lock press and can highly recommend it. WAY stronger then the last Challenger press. The ram is a BR fit in the press body - it does need a break in.

Before and after show ZERO change in runout.

Strong, more compact, works great, quick change die feature which I really like, dirt cheap.

Might want to give it a try

Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom