Ordering from C. Sharps??

O

outdoors

Regular
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Location
Far east.
I sent a message to C. Sharps concering options for thier Hunter's carbine and shipping to Canada. John replied advising that; "CAN SHIP DIRECTLY TO YOU AS THEY FALL UNDER YOUR ANTIQUE REPRODUCTION RULES AS LONG AS YOU HAVE YOUR P.A.L.". Can it possibly be that easy??

Registering it in Canada would be easy enough however would a US export permit not be required as well as a Canadian Import one? Who has actually done this?

Thanks.
 
outdoors said:
I sent a message to C. Sharps concering options for thier Hunter's carbine and shipping to Canada. John replied advising that; "CAN SHIP DIRECTLY TO YOU AS THEY FALL UNDER YOUR ANTIQUE REPRODUCTION RULES AS LONG AS YOU HAVE YOUR P.A.L.". Can it possibly be that easy??

Registering it in Canada would be easy enough however would a US export permit not be required as well as a Canadian Import one? Who has actually done this?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are different rules for Antique reproductions. You should still have an IIC for the canadian side but there is no commerce or state depart papers. however, there are still forms to be filled out by the exporter. It is much easier and simpler on the US side.
 
Don't know if the US guys know the rules all the time, John is a good guy, and like most Yankees doesn't believe the rules should exist! Deal with John with confidence, and i know you will like your rifle, top quality barrels!!!!
 
Please pardon the LONG post, but I think what you're referring to is section 123.17(b) of ITAR (Exports of firearms and ammunition.), which reads:

"Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit the export without a license of nonautomatic firearms covered by Category I(a) of § 121.1 of this subchapter if they were manufactured in or before 1898, or
are replicas of such firearms."
http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_123.pdf

That Category 1(a) they refer to in that last section is the ITAR Section 121, also known as the U.S. Munitions List, and that section describes:
"CATEGORY I—FIREARMS, CLOSE ASSAULT
WEAPONS AND COMBAT SHOTGUNS
(a) Nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive (12.7 mm)."
http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/regulations_laws/documents/official_itar/ITAR_Part_121.pdf

That means my Chaparral 1876 Win repro in .50-95, & Armi Sport Spencer 1865 in 56-.50, were just as easy to get across as my Shiloh Sharps 1874 carbine in .45-70. I have no idea about shipping directly, as I live in a border-town & went through a U.S. FFL for several reasons. The FFL got me the items locally, at which time a friendly verifier can take a look at them with me & confirm the info. I didn't want to chance some faceless flunky freaking out somewhere & refusing the items, or calling the RCMP over what IS a legal act, so I preferred to do it face-to-face where I could answer questions & produce reference documents in support.

Now, the rifles may be exempted from ITAR export restrictions, but the ATF still considers them firearms, meaning it's a felony for us Non-Immigrant Aliens to be in possession of them on U.S. soil (except under some circumstances that didn't apply in my case), and for an FFL to give us possession of them. The FFL may directly export them, which in the context of a small border-town, meant driving a pick-up truck to the Canadian side to hand them over to me where I waited at the bridge plaza (hint: calling the local CBSA office, giving them a head's up, & asking if they have any preference on how to proceed is a great idea to smooth the process, they may also tell you about quiet times with minimal waits).
The firearms must be declared when coming over, and CBSA staff will need to confirm the info, and that you are in compliance with transportation regs. They may also want to check out the neat rifles, but that's another matter. (hint: be patient. Not every customs officer knows every firearms reg like the back of his/her hand. Any more than you may know everything about agricultural product restrictions or excise issues.) I was told that everything was in order, that I would have to pay the PST/GST on them, but wouldn't be able to take them home right away, until they were registered. The guy I spoke with was pretty surprised when I said that they already were.
I had faxed the registration applications (CAFC 998 form-- http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/998-eng.pdf ) to the Registry already. Under block (A)1 I ticked off "NEWLY IMPORTED FIREARM", and in the box notes field I typed "Firearm awaiting importation clearance from CBSA".
I called up the Registry the next day & asked about the status; it was processed already. They can't/won't fax you the Regt Cert, but will give you the number. I listed the Regt Cert numbers on the application forms, and produced them for the CBSA staff. One guy told me they needed the ORIGINAL Regt Cert to allow import, so I pointed out references from CBSA documents to him that they did not, and invited him to access the Registry database to confirm the PROOF OF REGISTRATION that I had provided him. In the end they didn't bother. I didn't even have to provide my last-resort 'trump-card' in the form of Appendix F (REQUIREMENTS FOR CUSTOMS RELEASE) to CBSA memorandum D19-13-2 (memorise this number, link below), which allows release on proof of valid licence. Everyone was polite, friendly, efficient (yes, really), and it was all over in about 20 minutes. I hear it takes longer to import ATV's?
Incidentally, non-restricted firearms can be imported into by individuals Canada without an International Import Certificate (IIC), as per CBSA memorandum D19-13-2, under Tariff 9898.00.00
http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d19/d19-13-2-eng.pdf

All necessary firearm info is supposed to be noted in the B15 Casual Goods declaration form, and it's probably a good idea to remind them to include at least the make/model/serial#/Regt Cert# info, and keep your copy, in case of any future questions.

Lastly folks, a little rant: ALL this info is available for free, on the 'net! Don't listen to me, look it up yourself & be sure. Would you take legal advice from some anonymous 'StumpHumper6969' on bubbashouseofguns.com? I wouldn't. After asking several different cops, and border staff in Canada & the U.S., and getting as many different answers as people I spoke with, I said to hell with it & researched it myself. It took a long time, but much less than the time I'd spend in a U.S. prison for any number of felonies if I hadn't looked it all up. It may seem a waste of paper, but I also took the time to print out many/most of these reference documents to have on me when importing them. It helped. NOBODY asked me 'why do you want to bring something like that into Canada', but two guys commented on me 'having done my homework', and 'having everything well in order'. You learn the regs, and you help yourself. Oh yeah, that Shiloh carbine is SWEET!
 
Smoothbore, after reading all that all I can say is........................... I'm very jealous about your Armi Sport Spencer. :rockOn:
 
Thanks guys. I agree on the onus being mine to know the rules however I figured that some of you had "gone before" and could certainly point me in the right direction. You have been very helpful. I can almost smell the smoke!
 
Quote: "Smoothbore, after reading all that all I can say is........................... I'm very jealous about your Armi Sport Spencer."

--->K.K.,
-Oh it's a nice one, and I have no real complaints. The trigger is STIFF, but should only take a little work to de-burr & hone a bit. The plastic hard-case that comes with it was cracked in shipping, and it was missing the barrel-band retaining catch/spring assembly. The trigger didn't surprise me for a modern rifle, the case was hardly the maker's fault, and the e-mail I sent to Armi Sport about the barrel-band catch spring resulted in an e-mailed apology within a couple of minutes (!), and a free replacement shipped from Italy to my home in Canada in a little over a week. That's the best customer-service I've seen from any firearm manufacturer in a long time.
I have no problem with the Spencer, it's just the timing of it all. I had saved a little cash over a long time, and acted when the Canadian dollar beat the U.S. by around $0.10 to exchange a lot of cash all at once, and bought all three rifles pretty close to each other (when I think of what I saved over a $0.30 difference the OTHER way!). I wanted the Spencer for deer, but scrapped deer plans that fall. Moose was the priority due to getting both archery and firearm bull tags through separate groups. I'd wanted the .50-95 Model 1876 for firearm moose season, but I had problems with the modern Italian manufacturer's 'interpretation' of chamber specs (read: shoulder position) Vs. that of the originals (that I had dies for...).
In the end I had to move fast, scrap the .50-95 plans, and run with the Shilo Sharps carbine for moose. I'd been loading .45-70 for years, and had dropped a nice bull with an 1886 (Browning) previously, so I quickly worked up some cast loads for the Sharps & ran with that. 4 days into the season, a decent bull dropped under the weight of a cast 330gr Gould-type hollow-point, hard & fast, less than a month after I got the Sharps.
I look forward to taking the Spencer out, and the 1876 after sorting out the ammo issues, but the Sharps carbine already has a fond spot with me...
 
----Oh yeah, I still feel lucky about the timing and savings from those deals. I will continue to do so as long as nobody feels the need to point out that if I'd only waited a few months I could have gotten the Chapparal Arms Win 1876 cheaper in Canada from Marstar than I did from the U.S. I wanted in for THAT moose season, and didn't expect the chamber problems that prevented me from using it that fall anyway.------

I'd suggest that anyone considering any of the modern repros these days to first look around to see what Canadian companies are avoiding U.S. import/export restrictions completely by dealing directly with European companies--some things are actually significantly (like; by hundreds of $) cheaper here!
 
Single shot BPCR do not need US export permits. Obtain ser# from mfg. and have it registered in Canada then have the sender include photo copy of PAL & reg. cert.in box........pick up at local PO and go shootin.
I know of three Sharp's imported this way. No need to pay a FFl or Canadian middle man anything alltho they will try to tell you different.
There are no Canadian requirements other than registration.
The Spencer & 76 Chapparell are repeaters so will require all paperwork & FFL participation.
 
Fingers284--what do you mean about the 'repeaters' needing 'all paperwork' and BPCR's not needing export paperwork? Both are exempt from export-licencing if they were made 1898 or before, and that includes modern-made reproductions of either. In my messages above I provided the actual reference of the relevant export-exemption, and you can read there or follow the link to the actual U.S. State Dept site where it makes absolutely no distinction between single-shots or repeaters, as long as they're not automatic. As long as the firearm in question was made in or before 1898, or is a reproduction of a firearm that was, it qualifies for that U.S. export exemption, and modern reproductions of either require an FFL for an interstate transfer.

Now, certain single-shot rifles in some calibres qualify as Antiques under Canadian law & do not have to be registered in Canada, but they do have to be declared on entry, and you or the seller may be required to show proof of Antique status. I've never bothered with an 'antique letter' from the RCMP, when CBSA staff can see for themsleves on the FRT. The letters can't hurt I guess?

The Canadian import-requirement is simply registration for imported non-restricted firearms shipped directly as best I understand, but the Registry may require verification of the specific firearm to complete the registration application. Just to avoid any potential hassles the first time importing 'modern' firearms, I chose to go through an FFL & bring it across myself. I paid an extra $25 FFL transfer fee, but saved the additional cost and time of international shipping, and avoided some CBSA staffer in some office somewhere who may or may not be up on firearm laws deciding whether to allow it into the country or return it. I've had stuff as simple as a pocket-knife returned by Customs in the past with no reason provided, so I went a few extra steps for the rifles. It worked out fine for me that time, and I had them in my hands sooner than I would have if shipped directly to me in Canada. Now that I'm a little more familiar and comfortable with the process, I may have something shipped directly to me here next time, if our dollar value ever goes up again....
 
The original post was in reference to C Sharps factory new guns not antique's.
As i said before I know of three Sharps imported into Canada with no FFL involvment. Maybe Montana to Canada does not consitute interstate comerce?
Last year I had two 1873 Win. reproductions imported from Texas and had to have export permits & shipment made by a FFL holder.

If what you say is correct about the repeaters I passed on a hell of a good deal in Wyoming 2 yrs ago when the dollar was near even. Two NIB Uberti 73 carbines for 700 apiece (1300 each here) because I didn't want to go through the paperwork hassle at the time.
 
I don't really know how U.S. inter-state commerce regs would affect direct-export outside the U.S.? Anybody? The BATFE specifically authorise an FFLicensee to 'directly export' a firearm outside the U.S., but I don't really have any idea how that might or might not apply to: a private citizen (non-FFL), or a manufacturer (who may have different legal rights/license-restrictions).

I do know that the State Dept called back my FFL a day or so after his original inquiries to them, and asked him if he were a licensed firearm manufacturer? No explanation about why they asked, and when he said he wasn't, they said it was still fine for him to go ahead & sell/deliver to me. U.S. laws/regs make my head spin sometimes...

As far as the difference between single-shots & repeaters, I'd hate to think that your problems were all because: 1) C. Sharps Arms knew about the exemption, and, 2) the other dealer/seller didn't? Any applicable U.S. laws/regs I've seen don't make the distinction. Unless I'm mistaking something somewhere (see the links), as long as the modern-made firearm is a reproduction of an 1898 or prior, non-automatic firearm, it can be exported without license, and if so, the BATFE specifically authorises an FFL to export directly (in person or shipped). Maybe manufacturers & non-FFL holders are treated differently?

I legally got the 1876 repeater, and the Spencer 1865 repeater, over here under the S.123.17 exemption, which should cover the 1873's of yours? Great prices on the '73s. I'm interested in one myself, but between the three rifles & a bunch of antique revolvers all in one year, & our dollar sliding down the toilet, I think I've spent enough for a while...
 
Me too; last year 2 new Uberti H.G.'s ,2 Uberti 73's, Orig Win highwall 45-90,Orig Marlin 1895 45-90 and a 1st gen Colt SAA. This year no job .....yet!
I told the wife she had to get a better job to keep me in the lifestyle I have become accustomed to.
 
Again, it appears that C.Sharps provides better service. To my knowledge Shiloh requires that one use an exporter and Leroys is going out of business. The only other one Ive found charges 10%. Ill be going with C. Sharps next.
 
Sorry One more 45/70 Quigley on the way ordered when the dollar was high. I meant the next next one. You had a great idea with the 40/90. May get some velocity with a smaller chunck of lead so tolerable recoil.:dancingbanana: Speaking of recoil I have a gussied up shiloh 1874 shiloh 45/70 sporter with a nasty buttplate curve. What is that all about? Why would they be designed with such a curve?
ben hunchak said:
You've got enough Sharps, leave some for the rest of us, maybe you need a .50/90!!..Ben
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thanks Clay. That clarifies it for me. Can you import Shiloh and C. Sharps products? I am impressed with your service overall.
SakoAlberta said:
Yes, there are different rules for Antique reproductions. You should still have an IIC for the canadian side but there is no commerce or state depart papers. however, there are still forms to be filled out by the exporter. It is much easier and simpler on the US side.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom