Gauging interest in 2 day rifle course.

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........identifiable members of criminal organizations........

.......Until such time as they receive a criminal conviction........
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Oh, You mean these are people innocent of a crime.

But are guilty by..?? what? Someones Opinion?

The same idiotic comments can be made for 'Drug Dealers' being Afri-Cdn.

Are Afri-Cdn people allowed to shoot guns?

This is also another example of 'Only Good Enough' for certain people.
Someday the "I won't sell to you , I won't train you" attitude will become, "I'm not going to help you" because you aren't "My Kind"




That being said. I am thinking of setting up a Rifle and Forced Entry Tactical Course. This will be for Non-LE only.
Vertical assaults, Bus Entry, Sniper training, etc. Commando assault / SWAT stuff.:jerkit:
 
Alright I'm really not interested in hearing people whine about requirements they will never have to fill. I've said it once and I'll say it again, if you don't like the requirements then you don't need to come out. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people not wanting to come for whatever reason they choose. KevinB will likely not be there, but you never know, If we can't get Rambo to come out he may need to be the fallback lol. Maybe the bottom third can find some other threads to post in?
 
suprathepeg said:
Maybe the bottom third can find some other threads to post in?
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WOW...now you are classifying the people who complain or express a dissatisfaction with your process for trainee selection as an identifiable group that is lower in class in the your self-prescribed firearms community heirarchy?

With attitudes like this, why do we worry about Windy, Miller, and the anti-gun movement. With comments like the above, we need to look within and be more concerned about our own self preservation than with the real world problems.
 
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FYI - Every single class that I have taken outside of a work setting has required me to submit documentation that qualifies me to the course -- at least for the firts class with that instructor. I know several instructors that do not do that, and I think they are making a mistake.



Larry Vickers requires it
Pat Roger's same
Kyle Lamb
Paul Howe
Frank Garcia
Jerry Barnhart

Even it is word of mouth from a someone they know that vouches for you. Then once you've shot with them, they will let you come back, and if your back again and again and again, then you may enter their circle of trust, where you can recommend and vet people for them.
 
I have no problem giving references, just let us know what you are after.

There are lots of organization that I belong to/participate in that require some sort of reference. Be it verbal or written or practical. SAR, EMO local clubs ect all require background checks and referrals. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect them for a firearms training course...

How else do you weed out the "I've watched all the magpul DVDs and now I am an expert" kinda guys? ;) This isn't a public service, it's a private venture...
 
Who is the instructor,what are their qualifications,experience, credibility,relevance?
What are the other fees (range fees, food, lodgings if required)?
Most important How much?
 
Reaper said:
Who is the instructor,what are their qualifications,experience, credibility,relevance?
What are the other fees (range fees, food, lodgings if required)?
Most important How much?
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Reaper beat me to it, but the above in bold were going to be my questions as well.

I'd be interested based on the answers to the above, as well as when and where.

Starting late August and going to December is a busy time for us running and teaching courses, so time for self-development is very limited.
 
Vetted Training...a reality coming to a course near you, get used to it. I for one have been on the firing line with a #### rat...never again. As far as Instructors go, credential are everything, like Reaper said. As far as Bloand goes, which version are we talking about. KevinB is actually much like the Dread Pirate Roberts...the former CF guy retired, trained an apprentice and moved to the States after "overseas work"...surprised no one else caught that...:D
 
I would enjoy an introductory type course if its a prerequisite to more advanced stuff, but a standalone 2 day course doesn't interest me that much. So before signing up I would also want to know the plans for the future.
 
Reaper said:
Who is the instructor,what are their qualifications,experience, credibility,relevance?
What are the other fees (range fees, food, lodgings if required)?
Most important How much?
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I hear it's James Cameron :jerkit:

:sucks:
 
Stevo said:
Might as well not allow any training then. A reference can be faked far easier than a valid PAL.
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Not if its credible and the reference can be checked. About your local Chief of Police for a reference? Doubt you will find many of those faked.
 
rivetc78 said:
Oh, You mean these are people innocent of a crime.

But are guilty by..?? what? Someones Opinion?

The same idiotic comments can be made for 'Drug Dealers' being Afri-Cdn.

Are Afri-Cdn people allowed to shoot guns?

This is also another example of 'Only Good Enough' for certain people.
Someday the "I won't sell to you , I won't train you" attitude will become, "I'm not going to help you" because you aren't "My Kind"



That being said. I am thinking of setting up a Rifle and Forced Entry Tactical Course. This will be for Non-LE only.
Vertical assaults, Bus Entry, Sniper training, etc. Commando assault / SWAT stuff.:jerkit:
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The fact that you have chosen the put a racial slant on this for no apparent reason at all truly shows you are idiot.

So one ever suggested that anyone isn't "good enough" or "those people" or even that civilians shouldn't take weapons training. What is being suggested is that some common sense and investment of time will go a long way to perserving training in the long run.

Have you ever sat in court room "voluntarily"? Ever read a court transcript? Do you even know jack s**t about the Charter? Spend some time and get to know your justice system. People walk out of our court rooms everyday after commiting all manner of evil on your fellow man for no other reason than a 'technicality of law' or a plea bargain. That doesn't mean they didn't do. :feedTroll:
 
You need a LE clearance letter to help supervise your children at school.

I fail to see why people view this as such an issue.

In most states your CCW acts as a base character reference, and for that you need fingerprints etc.



However unless it is a very basic class, you end up with some idiot windowlickers that slow the class down at best, and others are totally unsafe. So asking for a training CV and a LE clearance letter is a good thing, both for you as the student and also for the instructor.
 
KevinB said:
You need a LE clearance letter to help supervise your children at school.

I fail to see why people view this as such an issue.

In most states your CCW acts as a base character reference, and for that you need fingerprints etc.



However unless it is a very basic class, you end up with some idiot windowlickers that slow the class down at best, and others are totally unsafe. So asking for a training CV and a LE clearance letter is a good thing, both for you as the student and also for the instructor.
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Well said, any instructor worth a damn will in fact insist of vetting potential students.taking any joe off of the street and attempting to train them is a sure sign of an amatuer outfit ,it would raise my "spidey sense" if no vetting process is required.
 
Supra, I hope none of this negativity in any way deters you from proceeding with this. There are far too few opportunities available to receive firearms instruction around here. Building from basic skills sounds like the only way to do it, otherwise as you attempt to progress, you'll be clashing all the time on the basics.
 
Reaper said:
Well said, any instructor worth a damn will in fact insist of vetting potential students.taking any joe off of the street and attempting to train them is a sure sign of an amatuer outfit ,it would raise my "spidey sense" if no vetting process is required.
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So you're saying that James Yeager and Tactical Response are a bunch of amateurs? Don't be a douche.
 
nemesys said:
So you're saying that James Yeager and Tactical Response are a bunch of amateurs? Don't be a douche.
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I took 2 TR classes. The Fighting Rifle class in Abby, and the first HRCC Driver class with Tony Scotti. Both of those classes had safety issues with student that where WAY over their head, that cause issues for the class.
One of our other members and I where looking down the barrel of a Beretta .40 since the dumbass in Abby was to incompetant to know how to safely manipulate his pistol (and rifle) FR is TR's Basic class, but it did not require pistol training before, and there where way more incidents
The Driving class had issues to munerous to mention, two of the 5 students should not have been there.
James said he was changing his class vetting to make people take pistol before rifle, and was going to change the HRCC classes.

Many instructors have a NFE list where they blacklist people who cause problems or are just to RTFO to be safe.

Having a PAL and the Gov't retarded safety class does not mean one is competant with their firearm.

The other part of the issue is that what some consider basic, others consider advanced, and its hard to cut through the mouth breathing to get some folk to walk and chew gun.


Secondly while I like James Yeager, as a person, I think when honestly compared to some other instructors (LAV, Kyle Lamb, Paul Howe, Frank Garcia) that it is indeed the amateur hour.
 
I'm willing to bet that 99% of the people #####ing about 'vetting' wouldn't be able to afford/get approval from the 'warden'/etc. a course anyways...

Incidentally, if you don't like how someone is running a training course maybe you should try running one yourself. :rolleyes:
 
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