Steyr M1912 - now with pics

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mmatt

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Hi guys,

I have a chance to pick up a Steyr M1912 and I was wondering if anyone here could tell me anything about them. It is a 9mm (although I'm told that this is not standard 9mm) and I'd say it's in average shape. I'm told it functions fine and is quite accurate but I have yet to find that out for myself. The grips are a little loose and the finish is worn here and there, but overall, it's not bad.

So what kind of ammo should I be looking for and where should I look for it?

Can anyone tell me what the approximate value of it is?

I'll see if I can post pics of it later.

Thanks!

Matthew
 
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Anout 250,000 of them were captued by the Germans and converted to 9 para,look for an 8 stamped on the slide.

Thats all my old book will tell me(made from 1911-1919).

Bob
 
Most have not been converted and use the 9mm Steyr cartridge. Ammo is available but not common. I'm told people reloading for these guns have used the 38 Super case. Much easier than what I did, machining down 38 Special cases.
 
If it's the same as the Steyr 1912 (M12), be careful with the safety! I would nudge the safety up when firing and she'd stop - if you lever the safety back down, it may go bang. Just a heads-up....
 
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It looks as though what you have is the Model 1911 Steyr, but one made in 1914. It succeeded the Model 1907. There's a fair amount written about it and you can look it up on line. The rotating barrel (which aids accuracy) retards the action and the gun is an interesting military sidearm example of its time, but a lot more expensive to manufacture and a bit more complicated than its contemporary, the .45 ACP Government Model of 1911 produced in the USA. It was used as a secondary sidearm by Axis forces through WWII. The 9mm Steyr cartridge is a bit longer than the Parabellum, and so if you drop a 9mm Parabellum cartridge (or better: use a snap-cap -- you really don't want an accidental discharge with that in the chamber) into the chamber and the rim of the cartridge falls below the breech end of the chamber, the gun is in the original 9mm Steyr caliber. Really: be very, very careful not to drop the hammer if use an actual cartridge. As Rudy H wrote, most were not converted. 9mm Steyr is just a hair more powerful than the 9mm Parabellum, appears from time to time in the EEAmmo section, and is still manufactured and sold by Fiocchi. If you put a request in the EE section for that caliber, it's quite possible a member will have some to sell. In fact, now that I think of it, I may have some to sell. I'm not sure why the grips would be loose; perhaps they're after-market. I'm sorry, but I don't know current values. I don't think it should be very expensive. It has a magazine which is part of the grip -- not removable -- and so you should get some stripper clips to load it. They're fairly common in the US and should be obtainable without much of a problem. The 1911 Steyr is a nice, old gun (you might want a 'smith to check it over before you actually fire it). Enjoy.
 
MTF - thank you. That was very informative. I've taken some pictures and given it a bit of a closer examination.

n509315198_2976370_5897390.jpg


n509315198_2976372_7990867.jpg


It has a total of three serial numbers that I can find. In no particular order they are:

4607e
1669b
6728b

and 7199 is also etched into the barrel.

There are lots of little circled letters on many of the the parts including an "M" on the receiver, a "V" on the safety, an "L" on the hammer, etc.

There is a small un-circled "K" on the slide followed by a large "S" near the rear.

The grips do look original to me, they just appear to be well worn.

As for the caliber, I'm confused. The barrel has "B5" stamped on the side as you can see in the pic. I don't know if this is indicative of anything.

n509315198_2976371_6907235.jpg


There is no "8" stamped anywhere on the gun but a 9mm para almost fits in the chamber. Instead of being too small for the chamber though, it is too big. As you can see in the pic, the round sticks out from the top a fair bit and when I tried to push it in to see it it would seat, it became stuck and I had to tap it out with a dowel and hammer.

n509315198_2976373_2691998.jpg


To add to the confusion, the round does appear to fit into the magazine and will stay, but only if the round is pushed forward. If I try to slide it back, it pops out.

n509315198_2976374_8290592.jpg


The 9mm round that I used also appeared to be too big to fit into the recessed circle in the slide where the extractor and firing pin are. Maybe I just didn't use enough force...? I dunno.

Anyway, if this new info gives you anymore insight, please share. I'm interested. :)

Matthew
 
mmatt said:
The common 9mm is 9x19, yes? So if it's chambered for 9x23, why doesn't the 9x19 fit farther down the chamber?

Matthew
Click to expand...
The case dimensions are different enough to matter!
I too had a handful of cases made by turning 38 brass rims but that was a long time ago and have been drunk and asleep many times since. I do have the notes though!
Edited to add that I found it a simpler pistol to strip than any colt!
 
It is quite simple to take apart. It took me a few minutes to get it back together though. Apparently you have to flick the safety up to get the slide to move forward once it is seated. I suppose the manual probably had that in it... too bad I don't have a manual. :D

I looked up the specs on 9x19 versus 9x23 and indeed the 9x23 case is slightly slimmer than the 9x19 which is probably why the 9x19 wouldn't slide in all the way. I guess this is a good thing as I wouldn't have wanted to light it off with the wrong ammo in it.

So... anyone know where I can find any 9x23?

Matthew
 
It certainly seems as though you have a gun in the original 9mm Steyr (9x23) caliber. The differences between the 9mm Para round and the 9mm Steyr are indeed why the 9mm Para round doesn't fit the chamber. I should have remembered that when I suggested trying the fit. I apologize for not thinking and contributing to confusion. I don't know about the numbers. It may be a gun which was put together from pieces of other guns (very possible). They may be unit markings, but they don't seem like that. I can't really make out the numbers and where they are, except for the barrel, and I just don't know the meaning of it. They may be assembly numbers. I'm afraid I don't know enough about the gun and its numbering to tell you the answer, but I suspect that it was put together from parts of other Steyrs, and the numbers (except for the barrel) are serial numbers. Maybe there's a member who's a Steyr expert who can tell you
 
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Remember the movie with Arnold Swartznager and Jim Balushie when Arnold is a Russian Agent and pulls out his Steyr and says to Jim (when Jim shows Arnold his Beretta)No this is the most powerfull 9 mil!

It's true!

Bob
 
The KuK marks were for Austrian issue (allegedly) and there was a different k marking for the Hungarian units!
There was an interesting HBSA lecture at the Imperial War Museum a few years ago by a member who collected Austro Hungarian arms. Not sure if I kept the notes but I sold both of my 9mm Steyr pistols to him when I got out of pistols and into sporting rifles!
 
I've never really been one to care about older firearms and their histories... until now. :D I'll have to keep my eye out for some other older guns as what I've learned about this one is fascinating!

Matthew
 
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