Gauging interest in 2 day rifle course.

[the judge]

Get over it judge, unless you have access to verify every piece of id right on the spot and up to the minute then what you have stated above would never make any id or letter of reference legit up to the minute.

So I get a letter of reference today and show it to you next week, would it still be valid enough for you?? Its 2 weeks old now, I could have jaywalked in the interm

Nothing for me to get over. I don't have trouble getting training. I hope what is being proposed here in the way of training manages to get off the ground. I am trying to offer encourgement and advice from experience, for the private sector to consider what it needs to 'self regulate' before it is imposed on them and you find it over regulated to the point of redundancy.

If you find yourself among those that takes training from a provider without having some form of clearance done, then consider yourself 'lucky.' I wouldn't expect it to stay that way.

If you want to stand there and beat your chest and think you are entitled to do whatever you like because you qualify for a PAL...well I guess time will tell. Good luck.

 

[suprathepeg]

Mods please close this thread.

I'll start another one when the details are released. You gotta wonder why some people waste the time typing the stuff they do??

 

[OZZ]

Mods please close this thread.

I'll start another one when the details are released. You gotta wonder why some people waste the time typing the stuff they do??

Ya exactly....

 

[OZZ]

Nothing for me to get over. I don't have trouble getting training. I hope what is being proposed here in the way of training manages to get off the ground. I am trying to offer encourgement and advice from experience, for the private sector to consider what it needs to 'self regulate' before it is imposed on them and you find it over regulated to the point of redundancy.

If you find yourself among those that takes training from a provider without having some form of clearance done, then consider yourself 'lucky.' I wouldn't expect it to stay that way.

If you want to stand there and beat your chest and think you are entitled to do whatever you like because you qualify for a PAL...well I guess time will tell. Good luck.

Get stuffed, I really dont care what you think and what you think doesnt matter in a free society.

If someone doesnt want to teach newbs then they are not much of a teacher in the first place. I can definatly see a instructor having their own set of pre-reqs, like you go through my newb safety,pistol,rifle, etc then on to something more moderate and so on.

I love getting info from people who know WTF they are talking about on any subject becasue that how you really learn anything.

Why do you guys who are in the millitary or are cops need private training anyway?? Is your training that sh*ty in the first place?

 

[effinggoof]

Mods please close this thread.

I'll start another one when the details are released. You gotta wonder why some people waste the time typing the stuff they do??

Mods...I know you are going to close this thread, but it's a shame that the conversation about the responsible provision of "high speed" private sector training in Canada will die.

 

[wicked_police]

It's unfortunate this turned into a few babies crying about what they feel they're 'entitled' to.

It's a private venture. The parties involved have every right to restrict participation to who ever they feel fit.

Cutting down the training of Mil/LEO, just because you probably wouldn't get vetted onto the courses, only shows the maturity of some of the posters.

 

[OZZ]

It's unfortunate this turned into a few babies crying about what they feel they're 'entitled' to.

It's a private venture. The parties involved have every right to restrict participation to who ever they feel fit.

Cutting down the training of Mil/LEO, just because you probably wouldn't get vetted onto the courses, only shows the maturity of some of the posters.

Dude you always slag everyone, so you should be able to take it.

I`m enrolled in the LEO course entitled how to roll the newspaper boy, werent you the dude sleeping in the back?

Go ask for more tax money for training

 

[yyyyy]

Get stuffed, I really dont care what you think and what you think doesnt matter in a free society.

If someone doesnt want to teach newbs then they are not much of a teacher in the first place. I can definatly see a instructor having their own set of pre-reqs, like you go through my newb safety,pistol,rifle, etc then on to something more moderate and so on.

I love getting info from people who know WTF they are talking about on any subject becasue that how you really learn anything.

Why do you guys who are in the millitary or are cops need private training anyway?? Is your training that sh*ty in the first place?

They do teach noobs. Ones of good character, and show discipline and ability to follow instructions. As well, by getting some formal qualifications from other reputable schools/trainers they are better able to teach appropriately and form appropriate groups.

I am much more comfortable on a line or working in a 360/non-square range or similar set up knowing the people have some skills or have been vetted. This really shows when you take a course at a place like Thunder Ranch.

A lot of people "shooting for years" cant keep up in lessons with basic pistol manipulations, transitions, or remedial action drills ala tap-rank-bang.

I would be very uncomfortable, and it is short sighted or irresponsible frankly to allow people to be taking a "fighting rifle" class teaching/requiring weapon transitions and draws where unknown people can come and are not required in anyway to show they are ready for the course.

The most reputable schools and instructors in the USA have been doing this for the 10 years or so I have been visiting them. So any new school, especially a wildly popular with "highly skilled and experienced" instructors should have adopted this from the beginning as it is pretty much a "best practice" in the industry.

Maybe if some of these guys starting "training companies" as tactical trainers had actually taught at some of the better/renown schools, not boot camp, or a deputies class wear guys are still wearing 6 shooters and using weaver stances, then they would know this???

Or, perhaps their goals are high student registrations and sales rather than meeting/matching industry best practices.

And so, on a personal note, if the Bacon Brothers, or some gang banger has a PAL, do you want them learning CQB or weapons retention stuff? Or even your local mall ninja? Nope...? Hence, if you don't know someone like KevB said, they aren't getting in.

That makes me feel safer.

 

[yyyyy]

Get stuffed, I really dont care what you think and what you think doesnt matter in a free society.

If someone doesnt want to teach newbs then they are not much of a teacher in the first place. I can definatly see a instructor having their own set of pre-reqs, like you go through my newb safety,pistol,rifle, etc then on to something more moderate and so on.

I love getting info from people who know WTF they are talking about on any subject becasue that how you really learn anything.

Why do you guys who are in the millitary or are cops need private training anyway?? Is your training that sh*ty in the first place?

They do teach noobs. Ones of good character, and show discipline and ability to follow instructions. As well, by getting some formal qualifications from other reputable schools/trainers they are better able to teach appropriately and form appropriate groups.

I am much more comfortable on a line or working in a 360/non-square range or similar set up knowing the people have some skills or have been vetted. This really shows when you take a course at a place like Thunder Ranch.

A lot of people "shooting for years" cant keep up in lessons with basic pistol manipulations, transitions, or remedial action drills ala tap-rank-bang.

I would be very uncomfortable knowing, and it is short sighted or irresponsible frankly to allow, people to be taking a "fighting rifle" class teaching/requiring weapon transitions and draws where these unknown people can come and are not required in anyway to show they are ready for the course. Mentally, Physically, or Psychologically.

The most reputable schools and instructors in the USA have been doing this for the 10 years or so I have been visiting them. So any new school, especially a wildly popular with "highly skilled and experienced" instructors should have adopted this from the beginning as it is pretty much a "best practice" in the industry.

Maybe if some of these guys starting "training companies" as tactical trainers had actually taught at some of the better/renown schools, not boot camp, or a deputies class wear guys are still wearing 6 shooters and using weaver stances, then they would know this???

Or, perhaps their goals are high student registrations and sales rather than meeting/matching industry best practices.

And so, on a personal note, if the Bacon Brothers, or some gang banger has a PAL, do you want them learning CQB or weapons retention stuff? Or even your local mall ninja? Nope...? Hence, if you don't know someone like KevB said, they aren't getting in.

That makes me feel safer. An ounce of prevention is better than none. And the more the better IMHO.

 

[wicked_police]

Dude you always slag everyone, so you should be able to take it.

I`m enrolled in the LEO course entitled how to roll the newspaper boy, werent you the dude sleeping in the back?

Go ask for more tax money for training

 

[OZZ]

They do teach noobs. Ones of good character, and show discipline and ability to follow instructions. As well, by getting some formal qualifications from other reputable schools/trainers they are better able to teach appropriately and form appropriate groups.

I am much more comfortable on a line or working in a 360/non-square range or similar set up knowing the people have some skills or have been vetted. This really shows when you take a course at a place like Thunder Ranch.

A lot of people "shooting for years" cant keep up in lessons with basic pistol manipulations, transitions, or remedial action drills ala tap-rank-bang.

I would be very uncomfortable, and it is short sighted or irresponsible frankly to allow people to be taking a "fighting rifle" class teaching/requiring weapon transitions and draws where unknown people can come and are not required in anyway to show they are ready for the course.

The most reputable schools and instructors in the USA have been doing this for the 10 years or so I have been visiting them. So any new school, especially a wildly popular with "highly skilled and experienced" instructors should have adopted this from the beginning as it is pretty much a "best practice" in the industry.

Maybe if some of these guys starting "training companies" as tactical trainers had actually taught at some of the better/renown schools, not boot camp, or a deputies class wear guys are still wearing 6 shooters and using weaver stances, then they would know this???

Or, perhaps their goals are high student registrations and sales rather than meeting/matching industry best practices.

And so, on a personal note, if the Bacon Brothers, or some gang banger has a PAL, do you want them learning CQB or weapons retention stuff? Or even your local mall ninja? Nope...? Hence, if you don't know someone like KevB said, they aren't getting in.

That makes me feel safer.

Listen I agree totally and would like to have some good/fun training just for the hell of it.

I only posted on here as the OP of the thread was asking on another thread if the lower on a AR was the restricted part LOL

WTF does he know about anything?

 

[OZZ]

Right back at ya stun gunner

 

[the judge]

I teach new shooters. The pre-reqs are clearances and/or references. It's that simple. If people don't agree with that philosophy then by all means go elsewhere.

Why do cops and guys in the military need private training? Anyone in those occupations that are willing to pay out of pocket to obtain training for the development of their skills and tactics over and above what they receive in-service are the people who you want around when things go bad. They are the people that actually give a #### about your sorry ass. No, the training they receive in the first place isn't that ####ty, they just strive to be better. No different that anyone else that excels in their field.

Get stuffed, I really dont care what you think and what you think doesnt matter in a free society.

If someone doesnt want to teach newbs then they are not much of a teacher in the first place. I can definatly see a instructor having their own set of pre-reqs, like you go through my newb safety,pistol,rifle, etc then on to something more moderate and so on.

I love getting info from people who know WTF they are talking about on any subject becasue that how you really learn anything.

Why do you guys who are in the millitary or are cops need private training anyway?? Is your training that sh*ty in the first place?

 

[yyyyy]

Listen I agree totally and would like to have some good/fun training just for the hell of it.

I only posted on here as the OP of the thread was asking on another thread if the lower on a AR was the restricted part LOL

WTF does he know about anything?

I feel your pain.

E

I got flamed for asking who the instructor was going to be in a past thread about the Tactical Response Fighting Rifle or similar course.

Then some genius replied with "Do you want to learn to shoot from a celebrity, or from people who know how to shoot."

F8ck. what irony that was. That was exactly what I was trying to figure out!

 

[yyyyy]

I teach new shooters. The pre-reqs are clearances and/or references. It's that simple. If people don't agree with that philosophy then by all means go elsewhere.

Why do cops and guys in the military need private training? Anyone in those occupations that are willing to pay out of pocket to obtain training for the development of their skills and tactics over and above what they receive in-service are the people who you want around when things go bad. They are the people that actually give a s**t about your sorry ass. No, the training they receive in the first place isn't that s**tty, they just strive to be better. No different that anyone else that excels in their field.

Yep. And the same people saying they should have more training, are the people complaining when the police don't respond fast enough when your pick up is broken into.... If only we all had unlimited budgets and training time....

 

[OZZ]

I teach new shooters. The pre-reqs are clearances and/or references. It's that simple. If people don't agree with that philosophy then by all means go elsewhere.

Why do cops and guys in the military need private training? Anyone in those occupations that are willing to pay out of pocket to obtain training for the development of their skills and tactics over and above what they receive in-service are the people who you want around when things go bad. They are the people that actually give a s**t about your sorry ass. No, the training they receive in the first place isn't that s**tty, they just strive to be better. No different that anyone else that excels in their field.

What makes you qualified to teach? What are your special acomplishments making you worthy of being a paid instructor? Do you have references from past happy students?

 

[OZZ]

Yep. And the same people saying they should have more training, are the people complaining when the police don't respond fast enough when your pick up is broken into.... If only we all had unlimited budgets and training time....

In Victoria Cops dont respond to vehicle breakins ever, hell I chase off more crackheads from our properties than any cop ever has. ( I dont know what this has to do with anything but, I was ranting . I try and take care of myself and others around me as much as I can.

 

[yyyyy]

I'm working on hosting a two day rifle course in central Canada and would like to see what kind of interest there is out there. Course would be taught by a highly skilled and experienced instructor (details to come).

The skills taught in this course would be applicable to competition shooters, hunters and general range hacks like me . This would be the level one introductory class for shooters who are looking to better handle their firearm safely and effectively. That said a basic understanding of safety and your firearm will be required. Subsequent levels of instruction will go into more depth

Course would cover

-firing positions
-safe handling of your rifle
-snap shooting
-etc etc. I'm sure you get the idea.

All participants would be required to provide PAL upon attendance of the course etc. time line would likely be some time in September.

Let me know what you think. If this kicks off there will be a limited number of slots to fill as we would want everyone to get as much attention as possible.

Back on topic:

Interest=Zero. If you can't say who the instructor and organizers are, when, where, etc, then you are just blowing smoke.

Good for you for trying, but how can you ask a question like that without offering some info on the instructor and his qualifications???? Really.

Not only is the instructor important, but a person with experience in organizing these things, or running events, heck , even going to them, would mention those basics, as well as instructor to student ratio etc.

Get back to me when you have data rather than ideas.

 

[Seyek]

Why do LE/Mil types need or want these training courses, a quote I found on another forum brought it to mind

Amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they can't get it wrong.

Government provided training is sufficient, but can always be improved upon and/or reinforced, and others simply don't get the same training opportunities (reservists for example). Others as already mentioned have the money and will the improve themselves, and extra quality training can never be a bad thing.

As for references - a PAL simply means you repeated what you read in a book, doesn't mean you can safely handle live fire tactical training with others. There are many people who PALs and are incapable of following basic instructions or acting in a smart/safe/responsible manner. One way around this could be to include an mini intro/testing course for a day where people unable or unwilling to provide references are able to show up and run through a series of live fire shoots to show a basic proficiency/safety level, and conduct dry runs of some of the drills involved. I think this would be good for a basic introductory level course. Then again, the people with far more knowledge and experience who are running things will have to judge the merit of that idea themselves, as I've never run any sort of training, and am still at or below the level of amateur myself.

As for people who feel they are being excluded or what have you, grow up, if someone running a course wants credentials to better their chances that they won't have to deal with incapable or unsafe individuals then so be it, its their course, accept that you need documentation or simply don't take the course. Either way, the last thing you should is slag these people for their efforts, we all should support efforts like this at running courses. Who knows, maybe it'll start with courses for LE/Mil types at first, then once several successful courses have been run they can be expanded for others later on. It has to start somewhere, and I don't know of any regular training courses for people, especially here in Ontario. If you don't like it, throw your support behind it anyways, and offer constructive advice for how to open things up for yourselves and others.

As for the lower of the AR being restricted thing that OZZ mentioned, I don't know what the qualifications of the OP are, but just because someone doesn't know which particular part of an AR is legally the restricted firearm part, how does that affect their ability to transition from a primary weapon to a secondary, identify and engage threats, clear a room, or other such things?

Oh, and KevB, if you're reading this, it would be great if you'd keep up to date on how this turns out, and offer advice if able, your advice and knowledge that you've posted here and on other forums are great, and suggestions and tips from one of the more experienced and knowledgeable members of this community is always welcome for us trying to learn.

 

[yyyyy]

What makes you qualified to teach? What are your special acomplishments making you worthy of being a paid instructor? Do you have references from past happy students?

Great questions. And a reputable instructor will answer them.

Also ask people who have gone or have something to compare it to: Can the instructor skilfully perform the drills... lol.

I have to say I don't necessarily believe the "those who can do - do, those who can't teach" BS. People can be a great fighter, shooter, or whatever. Teaching is a skill all on its own.

But all the same, you better be a great shooter if you are teaching. Many good instructors shoot or see millions of rounds a year. So if you do this only once a year, how up on things are you?

And it is sad to see the guy on the DVD or brochure getting owned by the students who took an IPSC class. LOL

Makes me think of all the fat, out of shape, "prepared" guys who say "it is not the size of the dog in the fight" - that is just an excuse for not being prepared, or thinking something you did 20 years ago makes you qualified now. You've got to show me.

So, if you are going to teach or offer classes be prepared to be fairly well scrutinized.