In need of 9MM Luger Recipe (124Gr. Hornady @ .355" dia.)

32-20

32-20

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Hey gang...I have loaded thousands of rounds for the shotgun back in the day but have never loaded any rounds for the rifle/pistol. I have all the equipment (bought new 2 years ago for the 32-20) but have never got around to doing it. I was at my local gun shop this afternoon and wanted some 9mm Luger ammo. I was told that they have been sold out for months and likely will be sold out for several more. So, my only option right now is to reload. The guy at the store gave me what he suggested in regards to materials (the primers are on back order). Does anyone have any suggestions in regards to recipes or procedures for a newbie reloader? It probably doesn't matter too much but I intend on shooting this reloaded ammunition in a brand new, never fired, Norinco M213.

I do have the following books :
  • Speer Reloading Manual, Number 13.
  • LEE Modern Reloading Manual

The only reloading recipe that I can find that matches (I think) the bullets I bought is from the Speer Reloading Manual and is as follows :

.55" Dia, 124 Grain Speer Gold Dot-Hollow Point (I think it is similar to my Hornady bullets)
Bullseye : 3.9 Wt. Grs. - 4.4 Wt. Grs.


The materials that I have on hand are as follows :
  • Remington 9mm Luger brass (100 pcs new in bag)
  • Bullets : Hornady XTP, 9MM (.355" dia.), 124GR. HP/XTP
  • Powder : Alliant Bullseye
  • Powder : Hodgdon HP-38


So if anyone has any tips I would much appreciate it. I am very interested in recipes that would accomidate my particular Hornady bullets and either powders I have on hand.

Thanks in advance!
- Dan
 
follow what your manual says. Use the Speer manual and the Speer bullets, its really straight forward.
I would suggest making a "dummy round" one without a primer or powder, and make sure it cycles in the gun. Sometimes when starting out, guys will flare a bit too much and the rounds dont feed very well.
I'm one of the guys who crimps, but some guys dont feel the need. You might want to consider that as well.

* you say that the primers are on back order? where approximiately do you live? Perhaps you should call another store and see if they have any in stock?
* secondly to all of this, if you only plan on target shooting, I wouldnt go with the Speer Gold Dot ammo next time. Buy a cheaper bullet. My wife shoots 115gr JHP's and they run around $100 per 1000.
try to keep your costs down as much as you can, shop around.
 
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For Bullseye load should be between 3.8 - 4.4gr.
For HP-38 -- 4.3-4.7gr.

If you wanna shoot light loads, go with 0.1-0.2gr above minimum load to make sure the gun cycles.

Crimp moderatly just so the mouth of the case doesn't have signs of flare and the round cycles by hand (dummy round).
I load with OAL ~1.08 for my gun and my handloads worked just fine in my buddy's 213.

To add to what Hoochie said, next time buy cheaper powder that doesn't require much per cartridge so you can stretch 1lb bottle to say - load 2k rounds or so as opposed to 1.5K ;) For practice rounds :D
 
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Thanks for the help guys! I never thought about loading dummy rounds to make sure that they cycle in the M213! Good point - I'm going to do that right away!

I very much appreciate the help! I've been wanting to try reloading for years but have been nervous about it for some reason. Everyone keeps telling me that its quite easy but I have always remained a little apprehensive. I'd hate to make a mistake and buggar something up or get hurt! LoL

I shop at Cabelas and Whole Sale Sports in Winnipeg, Mb. I was at Whole Sale Sports when I was told that they didn't have any 9mm ammo. The reloading materials were sort of an impulse buy after that and I wasn't really thinking about prices (because I don't know much about reloading). I was at the mercy of the salesman behind the counter (who has generally always treated me well). I'll keep what you said in mind for the next time though! I've had alot of people tell me that since 9mm ammo is so cheap that they don't save too much by hand loading them. They do it for the accuracy.

Cheers!
Thanks again for the help!
- Dan
 
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I have tried an OAL of 1.08" in my M213 and it doesn't hand chamber very well (it would probably auto chamber alright though). It finds this OAL to be a little long. I went down to 1.067" and she works flawlessly. I can chamber a round by sliding the action back and allowing the action to come forward slowly. I think this is the OAL I'll require...Thoughts?

After looking in my LEE Modern Reloading Manual, it shows an OAL of 1.169" for the 9MM Luger. I'm not sure why I have to make my about .100" shorter but I do...I DO NOT HAVE A PRIMER INSTALLED. These are dummy rounds right now. Will the primer add a little to OAL?

If I am reading the Speer manual correctly, it calls for an OAL of 1.120"...I think.

How might this affect performance of the round? I mean, too much compression can't be a good thing, right?

Thanks...

P.S. Again and for the record, I am using Hornady 124Gr, .355"dia. HP/XTP bullets.
 
32-20 said:
After looking in my LEE Modern Reloading Manual, it shows an OAL of 1.169" for the 9MM Luger. I'm not sure why I have to make my about .100" shorter but I do...I DO NOT HAVE A PRIMER INSTALLED. These are dummy rounds right now. Will the primer add a little to OAL?
Click to expand...

The Lyman 49th edition calls for an OAL of 1.075" with a 125 gr jhp with 3.9-4.5 grains of bullseye. The primer should not add to the OAL you should be seating the primer a few thou below the case head.
 
My LEE Modern Reloading 2nd addition...125gr jacketed,4.7-4.9gr Bullseye min. OAL 1.150"...too long for my 226!

Big difference between reloading Manuals.
 
I've decided I am going to try the following format (once my primers get here) :

Brass : Remington 9MM Luger
Primers : Remington small pistol
Bullet : Hornady 124 gr., .355" dia HP/XTP
Powder : Hodgdon HP-38, 4.5 gr. wt.
OAL : 1.067"

Let me know if anything here seems WAY off. Now, I hope it doesn't take FOREVER for my primers to arrive! I've got the itch to do this - real bad!

Cheers!
- Dan
 
32-20 said:
I've decided I am going to try the following format (once my primers get here) :

Brass : Remington 9MM Luger
Primers : Remington small pistol
Bullet : Hornady 124 gr., .355" dia HP/XTP
Powder : Hodgdon HP-38, 4.5 gr. wt.
OAL : 1.067"

Let me know if anything here seems WAY off. Now, I hope it doesn't take FOREVER for my primers to arrive! I've got the itch to do this - real bad!

Cheers!
- Dan
Click to expand...


EDIT: Seems that Quickload is calculating pressures for this combo that are higher than published results. What IS valid is the amount the pressure INCREASES when shortening the OAL

You can NOT just substitute bullets and ASSUME they are the same.

That load with the 125gr Speer Gold Dot at 1.067" OAL is 33,700 psi
With the Hornady 124gr XTP at 1.067" OAL the pressure is 44,600 psi

The 9mm has a design MAX average pressure of 35,000 psi.
9mm +P is 38,500 psi
Proof load is 52,000 to 55,000 psi

Why the difference? The Speer bullet is SHORTER than the Hornady. So when the Hornady is loaded to the same OAL there is less volume in the cartridge case.

Speer GD bullet length = 0.525"
Hornady XTP length = 0.576"

When you use small capacity cartridges like the 9mm, small changes in OAL (meaning the volume in the case under the base of the bullet) can result in HUGE changes in maximum pressures.

You need to use reloading data EXACTLY when using max loads, and DO NOT just arbitrarily shorten the OAL without checking the load.

The pressures are from QuickLoad software. I read the thread and when I saw short OAL's and stout loads, it raised a red flag for me so I took a few minutes to check it out.

There are a couple threads about shortening OAL of handgun cartridges and the potential HUGE increase in pressures.

Now, that load would not have blown up your gun (at least not right away ;) ) but it would have given you a much smaller factor of safety between your load and the burst strength of the gun.
 
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WOW! I appreciate the information! I'll investigate further. Perhaps I'm going to have to reduce the powder charge to compensate. Ideas?

Cheers!
- Dan
 
Make 5 dummies without primer nad powder and start with OAL 1.1 or so and see if they cycle.
You may need to seat bullets lower to ensure reliable cycling, I found that 1.08 is perfect for my gun with either JHP or FP bullets. Round nosed bullet feed well with greater OAL.

Make sure you do NOT compress your load with OAL 1.067 (seems pretty short to me).

Factory JHPs usually get OAL whitin 1.07-1.09.
 
CeeZer said:
Make 5 dummies without primer nad powder and start with OAL 1.1 or so and see if they cycle.
You may need to seat bullets lower to ensure reliable cycling, I found that 1.08 is perfect for my gun with either JHP or FP bullets. Round nosed bullet feed well with greater OAL.

Make sure you do NOT compress your load with OAL 1.067 (seems pretty short to me).

Factory JHPs usually get OAL whitin 1.07-1.09.
Click to expand...


I have made 4 dummy rounds and found that 1.067" OAL is what works best in my M213 (slowly working the action back and slowly allowing the action forward to chamber the dummy round). This is of course with the Hornady 124 gr, .355" dia. HP/XTP bullets. Perhaps I'm being too picky when it comes to smooth cycling. I'll remake my dummy loads and start again to see if I can't work with a 1.08" OAL. As I said in an earlier post, I did feel that I could work with a longer OAL when the firearm was cycled in a faster, more crisp motion.

Cheers!
- Dan
 
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CeeZer said:
Make sure you do NOT compress your load with OAL 1.067 (seems pretty short to me).

Factory JHPs usually get OAL whitin 1.07-1.09.
Click to expand...

With HP-38 the gun will come apart before you compress the load. :)


32-20 said:
WOW! I appreciate the information! I'll investigate further. Perhaps I'm going to have to reduce the powder charge to compensate. Ideas?

Cheers!
- Dan
Click to expand...

Yes you can reduce the powder charge. But it is best to use published information.


(But in this case if you are using the Speer information but substitute the Hornady XTP bullet, the OAL should be 0.05" longer so you have the same volume within the cartridge)
 
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A few things to watch out for here:
* if your round is made too short, it will increase pressure and this is bad.
* dont start with such a large amount of powder ( 4.5?) go with a lighter load.

Going with a lighter load will help to reduce recoil which will aid you in follow up shots, and it also increases the number of rounds you can get out of a pound of powder.
reducing from the 4.5gr to 4.0gr will save you a half a grain; it doesnt seem like much but over the course of one pound will add up to extra powder for next time and helps to keep the cost down a tad. ( think of it like fuel economy... why waste fuel when you're trying to be economical?).

You're on the right track.
 
I very much appreciate all the input. I'm still very interested in reloading (you might even call it excited) but at the same time apprehensive. I don't want to do something wrong. For somebody who has never done this before, it is rather intimidating.

So...I just got back from the press after remaking some more dummy rounds. I made my new dummies with an OAL of 1.100" and I am able to chamber them effectively and they eject nicely as well. If I let the action do its job and snap forward, they chamber wonderfully. I'm feeling better about the larger OAL. So to revise my data while taking into consideration all the advice thus far, I am now thinking that I will produce my live rounds in the following format :

Brass : Remington 9MM Luger
Primers : Remington small pistol
Bullet : Hornady 124 gr., .355" dia HP/XTP
Powder : Hodgdon HP-38, 4.0 gr. wt.
OAL : 1.100"


SANDROAD, would you be so kind to run those numbers for me? I don't have the software that you are speaking off. It's appreciated! Thanks again...Y'all likely saved me my pistol and/or hands.

Cheers!
- Dan
 
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1 more question...I am using LEE dies and the set came with the factory crimp die. My intention is to use this crimp die. Will it increase pressure as well? My gut tells me that it wont but I feel the need to be certain.

Cheers!
- Dan
 
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