12ga vs. 20 ga.

Sharptail said:
I find that an odd sort of response. Examination of the two shells does not bear out that conclusion.

Take for granted that very few clubs allow loads with more than 1 1/8 oz. of shot, and that a good many shooters use 1 oz. loads.

Now, a 1 oz. load can be made up in a 2 3/4 inch 20 gauge hull as easily as it can be in a 12 gauge. Let's say we drive each load to 1200 feet per second, a reasonable speed for a target load with lead #8 shot.

If we have a 12 gauge gun weighing 7 1/2 lbs. and a 20 gauge weighing 6 1/2 lbs., and we shoot our 1 oz. loads through each, then the 12 gauge will deliver about 15.18 ft./lbs. of recoil energy, but the 20 gauge will deliver 18.68 ft./lbs. There are many recoil calculators on the net, go see for yourself.

In this case the poor 13 year old gets battered worse than the old man shooting the 12 gauge - it would be better if they swapped guns.

Of course one can make up 12 gauge shells with 1 1/8th oz. of shot and 20 gauge loads with 7/8th oz., and we can have a lighter 12 gauge gun and a heavier 20 gauge. If we stick to 1200 fps. and say that both guns weigh 7 lbs., then the 12 gauge will deliver 20 ft. lbs. of recoil energy compared to 12.5 for the 20 gauge. In this case the 13 year old is better off with the 20 gauge. Of course then Dad would be shooting 100 more pellets of #8 shot per load, compared to Jr.'s 20 gauge - but you want to look good in front of the kid.

My point is that there is far more to it than simply saying sub gauge guns are for kids. A lightweight 20 shooting heavy loads can be a punishing gun, while a heavy 12 shooting club loads can be a real pussycat. Think about the gun and the loads rather than making sweeping (and often incorrect) statements.


Sharptail
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Sharptail couldn't have give my oppion anny better.:agree:
 
Thanks for all of this. I'm still not sure, but will probably get a double in 20ga if I can find all the features I want at a reasonable price, without having features I don't want.

But, having spent over an hour looking through all of very affordable used doubles on TradeEx's website and finding not one 20ga., because of Win/64 I'm going to have to go back and look at them all again and think about 16ga. :mad:
 
Bobby Ironsights said:
I won't own a 20 gauge, because I own a 12. There's nothing wrong with the gauge, I'm sure it's nice, but there's a caveat.:runaway:

It would be too easy for me to feed a 20 into a 12 gauge mag by accident, if it was in one of my shirt pockets, or range bags, thoughtlessly.A 20 gauge shell slides down into the chamber, and continues until the rim hits the end, and sticks there, out of sight. A 12 gauge will chamber right on top, and Ka-Boom!

It's easy for someone much more perfect than me to be arrogant and say, "well, I'm absolutely careful, and wouldn't ever do that!".:rolleyes:

But I'm just an average Joe. I lose my keys or wallet once a week or so, I've put the cereal back in the fridge, instead of the milk, and at least twice that I can remember, I've looked around for my glasses in the morning, for a minute or two, before realizing that I was wearing them. I'm extra-special careful when it comes to guns, but I've still tried busting on a clay with spent shells, or have forgotten to #### the hammers, or release the safety first. More than once, unfortunately.

I HAVE to treat guns like their always loaded unless I checked them just a second ago, because they just might be loaded.:eek: It's not uncommon for me to check the chamber, get my train of though interrupted by someones unexpected question, or comment, and then double check the chamber again, just for reassurance.

So when we covered the importance of checking headstamps in my pal course, I just made a deliberate decision not to own two similar cartridges, that will result in a KB! when chambered in the wrong gun. That might mean I don't get to own some of the necked down variants, when I already own the parent cases, but that's my life, and I'd like to preserve it.
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It is good that you know your limitations.
 
Grouse Man said:
Do you constantly fill your gas tank with diesel? Or cut off your fingers while chopping vegetables? Let me guess - you've stabbed your eyes out with a fork while eating, right?

That really is the silliest reason to not own a 20. You're more likely to get your **** caught in a sausage grinder.
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You might notice by the word caveat in his original post that the author of that silly post is studying law:D
 
Check Epps also, the 20 you can hunt turkey with it and yes the recoil is slightly less. I have always liked the classic look of the SxS. A new Baikal is reasonable also.
 
I always check Ellwood Epps, they have been good for me in the past. But I don't see anything 20ga. listed there right now that meets my other criteria. The point of this thread is for me to become convinced that there is justification in getting a 20ga., because otherwise there isn't really enough justification for me to get another shotgun.:redface:
 
Why, does it come in a side by side double barrel version in 20 gauge? Because I'm not thinking about a 28 gauge and most of my motivation is wanting to try a side by side.
 
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I can tell from recent experience that a light 20 GA is more punishing recoil-wise than a big and heavy 12 GA. :)
For SxS 20GA check out the Yildiz shotguns. They are beautiful, light (alloy action), and not very expensive.
 
For a new shotgun, I have found one option in a 20 gauge that seems satisfactory and is less expensive than a Yildiz. If I don't get a 20, there are lots of decent looking used 12s at Tradex which are much less money. But if I'm not getting a different gauge, I'm less likely to get another shotgun at all. At any rate, a new Yildiz is a nicer (more $) gun than I am looking for, and I don't think there are enough of them around for me to wait for a used one that fits the bill.
 
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Grouse Man said:
Do you constantly fill your gas tank with diesel? Or cut off your fingers while chopping vegetables? Let me guess - you've stabbed your eyes out with a fork while eating, right?

That really is the silliest reason to not own a 20. You're more likely to get your **** caught in a sausage grinder.
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Yeah sure, whatever, but the instructor showed us a birdcaged shotgun barrel done exactly like that. A sleepy bird hunter with a cold numb fingers who loaded a 20 gauge from a compartment in his coat in his 12, and a popped .45 barrel from someone elses squib load and told us to be careful and I listened to him.
 
I laugh at Bobby's tales of putting cereal away in the fridge and being unable to find his sunglasses on his head. Partly because I can see myself in them. I won't laugh at him deciding that for himself, not owning a 20 gauge is a worthwhile safety precaution, though it is more caution than I will take myself.
 
Bobby Ironsights said:
Yeah sure, whatever, but the instructor showed us a birdcaged shotgun barrel done exactly like that. A sleepy bird hunter with a cold numb fingers who loaded a 20 gauge from a compartment in his coat in his 12, and a popped .45 barrel from someone elses squib load and told us to be careful and I listened to him.
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Your refering to a 12/20 burst. What happens is a 20 is dropped into the chamber and the shells drops into the barrel and gets stuck. Joe Hunter pulls the trigger and the gun doesn't go boom. He looks and his shell has disappeared. Instead on investigating where that shell wen't he puts another 12 in there and boom. It's the most common error like that. That's why shotshells are different colours. Usually 20 gauge shells are yellow, 12, red. There are exceptions of course, but you need to pay attention to everything about your shooting. Especially your ammo. That's what makes you a responsible shooter.
 
Not owning two different gauges of shotgun for fear of misloading them is the same as not owning two different rifle calibers or two different pistol calibers. I mean, same logic right? What if you chamber round X in rifle Y?
 
Joel said:
Not owning two different gauges of shotgun for fear of misloading them is the same as not owning two different rifle calibers or two different pistol calibers. I mean, same logic right? What if you chamber round X in rifle Y?
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The vast majority of calibers will not chamber in the wrong gun, or represent no danger if they do.

There are only a very few rifle calibers that are extremely close to each other, look the same, will feed through a magazine, will chamber properly, and will cause your rifle to turn into a grenade under your chin.

I cannot remember what combinations those are, my PAL instructor gave a few examples, but if you own them, you better make a habit of checking headstamps.
 
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