Helping a reloading newb get started. Yes or No......

notsorichguy

notsorichguy

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So I've been reloading for years, My dad first taught me how when I was a youngster. I remember throwing the handle for him when I was 6(ish) and I shot my first deer when I was 12 with loads my father helped me make.

It was my father-in-law who taught me how to take reloading to a fine science. He is the one who taught me how to work up a load to get max performance and accuracy out of my rifles.

Relatively recently I started reloading for pistols, I have had a restriced license for a few years now but my wife "put her foot down" when it came to pistols. (She still has her foot down in regards to black rifles....)

Enough about me.......

I have a "buddy" from work, single fella in his mid 20's, he hunts, fishes, has had a restricted license for a bit now but never bothered to get a restricted firearm. I sold him his first 9mm, and now he wants me to teach him how to reload.

About a month ago I lend him a copy of the ABC's of relaoding and I tell him to get a hold of me when he wants to give it a try. I had him over about a week ago, he brought the powder, primers & bullets with him (9mm), I have all of the equipment. So I sit him down and explain how it all works, (single stage).

I then pull out the tumbler with 500 already tumbled brass in it and show him how to use the first 2 dies with about 10 brass. I then get him to do 10 brass while I watch. At this point we have about 20 brass through the first 2 stages, resized, de-primed and with the "bell" in the end. I show him a couple of "trash" brass so he can look at all of the brass before he puts it in the press. I then show him "what not to do" and then show him how to properly re-size the brass again. I then watch him do about 10 more, I see he has the idea so I go to get a cup of coffee (just upstairs.... I havn't left the house) The phone rings it's my mom, one thing leads to the other and I wind up on the phone for about 15 to 20 min. So I refill my coffeee cup and head down stairs.

He says is just about done re-sizing the 500 brass..... I ask him "wha???" It usually take me 1.5 hrs to resize 500 brass! So I take a look at the brass, He took it upon himself to "skip" the first step...... and to top it off he FRICKKED WITH MY DIES! He adjusted my dies so that the "bell" at the end of the case was like a trombone!

So I ask him WTF!!! He says that he thought that the process would be quicker if he used only one die instead of 2. I said You are right it would be quicker..... but the brass will not be the right shape, and the bullets will not seat in the brass properly.

So I showed him why. I got him to prime (Lee Hand primer) the first 30 brass and then we weighed out 30 charges and seated the bullets. Then I got him to prime 30 of his cases, weighed out 30 charges and seated the bullets, some were ok(ish) most, the bullet sat WAAAAAAY down in the case.

So then I told him "go to the range and try-out these loads...... Then come back and tell me which ones work the best."

Then I started fixing his brass. about 280 brass wound up in the garbage as they wouldn't fit in the re-sizing die anymore. Top it off I've had this set of Hornady dies for a bit, I personally have run about 6000 brass through them in the last 6 months (I bought them used then). Now my resizing die leaves some really noticeable scratches on the brass, I just ordered a new set of dies, I don't trust these dies anymore.....

Needless to say he called me up and told me that I was right, the properly re-sized brass rounds worked way better...... No Kidding!!

Anyway I guess the question I need to ask is.......... Should I continue to help this guy learn how to re-load? He wants me to help get him set-up for relaoding 9mm & 300 mag (thats his huting rifle)

He is going to come over on Saturday to get his next "lesson" I was thinking if he can't follow instructions after saturday I would let him know that this is not for him.

On the other hand if if I don't "hold" his hand, I think there is a possibility of him hurting himself.......

And I guess maybe he has learned his lesson on "why we do things the way we do"..... I guess I shall have to see.

I need some advice...... He really is a nice guy and I work with him as well, I also shoot with him from time to time, we are members at the same club. I am starting to doubt his intelligence at this point.....

NSRG
 
Bygones.He learned some lessons.If he is to learn to reload correctly,who will he learn from,if not from you?
I suppose that either you did not tell him enough about the process, so that he launched on a goofy path,or,you told him too much and he was unable to absorb it all,so that he launched on a goofy path.

If he is responsible and tech savvy enough to own and shoot a 9mm,he should be able to master reloading.With proper coaching and direct supervision.
I say,keep trying.
 
id say if you want to teach reloading .......your the one that need to keep away from distractions..
on another note..good on you teach the friend..give it another go,just shut the phone off along with the tv..
 
I agree with jim (if you still have the patience for the guy, that is). I would also clarify some things right off the bat so he doesn't take such reckless liberties again.
 
Well, some of this might be your fault, and I say might be very loosely because I would think he should of known about this from reading the manual, but maybe he skipped this part (your distraction stopped him form catching it I guess). Give him another chance, but be a little skeptical this time around.

When I first started reloading, I would never have thought about cutting steps out to save time, the fact that he did this would have me asking questions about his intelligence too.
 
Great on ya for helping a newbie, my hat is off to you.

I think persuading him along in the right path is better thatn dumping him off tofind his own way and perhaps seriously injure himself or someone else.

My only critique of your teaching style, no offence intended, is that over-information sometimes muddies the waters. While trying to teach the right way and showing him the wrong way you may inadvertantly overloaded his now questionable intelligence... Demostrations of poor examples often lead to the student making the same or worse mistake on their own.

BTW, maybe after explaining to him the errors of his ways you might mention the fact that he screwed up your die set. If he is decent at all he'd at least offer to compensate you.
 
If he's in his 20's he is the start of Generation Y and can't follow directions to save his life, nor can he retain information from anything he has read.

Yes these are generalizations. However you may find that the above is true to some degree, whether it be more or less.

Stick with him but you will have to show him each step probably three times (3 separate loading sessions) before you can turn your back on him.
 
If you decide to give it another go, I would suggest finding a picture of a kaboomed pistol and maybe a hand injury to go with it. He might clue in on some of the worse things that happen when/if he messes around with reloading gear with a cavalier attitude.
 
Thanks for all the advice!

I am willing to take some of the responsibility for the mishap, but I was just upstairs, he could have asked me......

I guess I could have approched the subject a little differently, but I am not a "teacher" by nature or profession, I probably did overload him with info. I am hopeful that his experiance at the range has taught him a lesson or 2 better than I could have. IMO sometimes it just doesn't set in untill you screw up and then realise the mistake with an obvious result. (ie: poor performace at the range)

I think I will try to find a bunch of pics of KB's, as well as the vid I saw on Youtube last week of a guy shooting his glock KB, so he can see the "dangers" with reloading..... I am a little unsure if that should be his next lesson or not........ After all I don't want to scare him off.... I just want to scare him safe.

Thanks again for all of the tips guys, If you think of anything else pass it along.

Cheers!
 
I wasnt implying to use the kaboom photos to scare the crap out of him, just to be aware what happens when things go wrong.....

I used to get interrupted by the girlfriend while I was reloading so I showed her a picture of a mangled gun/hand and said that's what happens when reloads get ####ed up, so please stfu when I'm reloading.:)
 
Ammunition reloading can be dangerous if done improperly and should not be attempted by persons not willing and able to read and follow directions exactly. Children should not be permitted to reload ammunition without strict parental supervision.
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That is the start of the warning on my Lee dies, read it, and decide from there whether or not this fellow, is mature and able to reload ammunition. If he's learned a lesson, great, help the guy out. Otherwise............
 
Hand him the receipt for the brass that was trashed and a new set of dies.......then ream his butt for doing the typical young person thing of skipping steps and being sloppy to rush through, I was guilty of it with some things too, as were most of us, and I got reamed for it. That's how you remember not to do it again.

After that, if he's still around, give him another shot. If he just blows it off, then blow him off. You don't need to be the one getting blamed for teaching him wrong when he eventually blows up a gun.
 
blacksmithden said:
Hand him the receipt for the brass that was trashed and a new set of dies.......then ream his butt for doing the typical young person thing of skipping steps and being sloppy to rush through, I was guilty of it with some things too, as were most of us, and I got reamed for it. That's how you remember not to do it again.

After that, if he's still around, give him another shot. If he just blows it off, then blow him off. You don't need to be the one getting blamed for teaching him wrong when he eventually blows up a gun.
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:agree: Dies ain't cheap!
 
He did offer to pay for the ruined brass, I it wasn't worth much. @ $35 per 1000.... 250 brass aint so much. (I have a buddy that works for the local PD, no, he's not a LEO.... I get a lot of brass from him, I currently have about 200lbs that I havn't even sorted or looked at yet) I told him my dies were in bad shape (I should have just tossed the brass I was able to save) He offered to pay for that as well, I told him I couldn't do that as they were used when I got them, he insisted so we are going to split the cost.

Incidentally he found a Lee 1000 (9mm) set-up at the local g-store for under $300, He asked me if he should buy it.... I told him he isn't ready yet, he kinda agreed with me.

I have a dillon SDB, so eventually I will probably show him how to use that, but I am going to wait untill he understands all the steps and procedures with the single stage.

Cheers!
 
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So long as he's learned his lesson. It's your call. If you don't have any fear he'll blow himself up and sue you, then carry on. It is a very safe thing, reloading, but you need to pay attention, and not go looking for shortcuts, in places where there aren't any to be found. I hope he does well, so long as you guide him, and let him know why certain steps are required, he should :)
 
Good for him for offering to pay for his screw up/impatience.You have some raw material you can work with.And you're right,the Dillon is a great machine,but if you are not tuned in,it can break real easy!
 
" ...My dad first taught me how when I was a youngster. I remember throwing the handle for him when I was 6(ish) and I shot my first deer when I was 12 with loads my father helped me make... "


And did Dad leave you unattended to fend for yourself while he went for coffee & phone calls ?

Any young person faced with the drudgery of doing something, or a number of things repetitively 500 times or more will inevitably look for short-cuts.

Had you left him with say 50 pieces of brass to prep, you may well have seen a different outcome and been well on your way to something else.

The admonition, "do this exactly like this or all manners of s**t will come down on your head to plague you" is often enough to get someone to adhere strictly to the plan. He may not be a LOE, but I would surmise he is at least a responsible young man.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist or even an astro-physicist to reload... average intelligence and a willingness to learn is generally enough.

Glad you had the patience to show him in the first place, and that he had the class to offer to pay for his potentially costly errors. Someone with limited capacity doesn't usually do that.

Start fresh ... no distractions... clear instructions, reasons why and why not. See how he progresses.

Also glad that Dad and father in law didn't give up on you !
 
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notsorichguy said:
He did offer to pay for the ruined brass, I it wasn't worth much. @ $35 per 1000.... 250 brass aint so much. (I have a buddy that works for the local PD, no, he's not a LEO.... I get a lot of brass from him, I currently have about 200lbs that I havn't even sorted or looked at yet) I told him my dies were in bad shape (I should have just tossed the brass I was able to save) He offered to pay for that as well, I told him I couldn't do that as they were used when I got them, he insisted so we are going to split the cost.

Incidentally he found a Lee 1000 (9mm) set-up at the local g-store for under $300, He asked me if he should buy it.... I told him he isn't ready yet, he kinda agreed with me.

I have a dillon SDB, so eventually I will probably show him how to use that, but I am going to wait untill he understands all the steps and procedures with the single stage.

Cheers!
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under 300 for a 1000? straight out of the catalogue it's 201.98- inc dies- unless there's a BUNCH of other stuff with , it's a ripoff- bottom line is it's done, and hopefully he's learned his lesson- follow the steps and don't deaviate
one thing that strikes me is a lot of newer people try to think "outside the box" and "try" things that never even occurred to us- you did it one way , the way you were shown , and that was it-now we're getting mags/ammo in backwards, wrong cartridge( i'm still waiting for a ka-boom on that one) and a host of other questions we NEVER thought of-
 
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