Trigger technique to improve your shots?

harbl_the_cat

harbl_the_cat

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Someone once showed me a tehnique to help analyze your shot grouping;

Basically, the idea is to imagine you have a one (or two) hand grip on your pistol, and simulte doing a trigger pull. If you watch, you can see if any of your other fingers move, which can help identify why you might be pulling your shots in a particular direction.

I tried it, and compared it to Marstar's Pistol Group Analysis: http://www.marstar.ca/Analysis/index.shtm

I've been pulling my shots left consistently, and when I do this drill, I see that when I do a trigger squeeze, my middle finger flexs reflexively when i do a trigger squeeze - which would account for an increased grip pressure as the shot breaks, causing them to go left.

Anyone ever heard of this technique and know of some drills I can do to keep from pulling like this?

Thanks!
 
4runner said:
Hi
please take no offence but try some professional training. The link is to course here in Alberta

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/course.php?courseID=73
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None taken, but $700 for a 2 day course sounds like a false economy to me ($450 for the course, plus at least $250 for ammo). I'm sure the training is great, but that blows my budget hard; especially since the course is so heavily geared towards winning a"gunfight," which I think can most easily be summed up as "don't get in one in the first place," and given where we live - is the only option you really have.

$700 is about my ammo budget for the entire year; I'd rather learn some simple techniques to practice dry fire at home, and fire 50 rounds a week at the range once a week to practice. I know first hand that's better training than most police and military will ever have, so I think that's enough for me.
 
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Hours of dry fire practice while watching TV or whatever is a good start.

When shooting, think: "GRIP, FRONT SIGHT, SQUEEEEEZE..."
 
Try the dot torture drill. Good for working on shot placement.

Concentrate on a slow, smooth, consistent trigger pull. Let the shot surprise you.

If you're squeezing the trigger in a fast deliberate manner (not always a bad thing) you run a higher risk of anticipating the recoil and attempting to counteract it. You may see this if you load some dummy rounds in your mag the next time you're shooting. Gun goes click, and your wrist pushes the muzzle down.

Figuring out the problem(s) is only a small part of the battle. I'm still unlearning bad habits from years of plinking.
 
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Dry fire practice is definitely the way to go. Not only does it improve your hold and trigger pull, it also conditions your shooting muscles so that you don't tire so fast.

Snap caps are mandatory IMO. When I first started I couldn't for the life of me understand what people meant by "shot should come as a surprise". Once I started practicing with snap caps, it became totally clear!

The whole point of dry-firing snap caps is to make sure that your sights are aligned on target before, during, and after trigger pull. So when you switch to real ammo, the shot will come as a surprise when you pretend that every shot is a dummy round! This alone completely transformed by performance from amateur to 25yd-shooter

Of course you also have to work on other aspects like stance, position, handgrip, trigger finger position, etc.
 
What do you suggest is the best trigger finger position?

Also, I was thinking at the range yesterday, I'm shooting wrong, but I'm shooting consistently wrong. At 7m, I can get a 4" grouping at least, but my shots still always land left (and consistently left).

Thanks for the tips guys.
 
How hard are you gripping with your strong hand?

With your strong hand grip the first two fingers of your weak hand. Now use your trigger finger and mimic breaking a shot. You will feel any unwanted movement in the fingers of your strong hand.

The strong the grip with the strong hand the harder it is to manipulate the trigger without unwanted movement in the gripping fingers.

I think the old adage of gripping the handgun like a hammer -firm but relaxed- still holds true. Too firm a grip can have the effect of putting unwanted stresses on the gun and steering shots all over the planet. Too loose and you will lose recoil control - instead of the simple up and then back to target movement - and the gun will start to bounce around with no consistency in movement.

Of course there are some shooters out there who really muscle the gun and get away with it but I think they are the exception rather than the rule.

As far as finger positioning goes the tried and true middle of the pad on the end of your finger is still best for most people in most situations. I have tried everything from the very tip of my finger to shooting with the first joint and it all works to a degree - and depending on the situation. But the conventional middle of the finger pad seems to be the most versatile and easily repeatable....for me anyhow.
 
harbl, first question I have would be are your sights 'on target'? Best way to check is to shoot a few rounds off a sandbag. If they are on target. Then this chart may help.

correction_chart20color20center.jpg


What I find that works for me is a good grip on the handgun, focus on the front sight and using the tip/pad of my finger to 'activate' the trigger for a semi-auto (I need to have it up to the first joint if I'm shooting DA revolver). I'm not thinking about 'pulling' the trigger when I shoot. My concentration or focus is on the front sight only. I know the gun is going to go off but not exactly when because I'm not focusing on the trigger. After the shot goes off, I'll let the gun recoil meaning that I won't fight to keep the sights on target. I've found it will 'naturally' drop back close to being on target for my next shot....Everyone is different and everyone has different body mechanics so YMMV and I may also be full of poo. :redface:
 
harbl_the_cat said:
None taken, but $700 for a 2 day course sounds like a false economy to me ($450 for the course, plus at least $250 for ammo). I'm sure the training is great, but that blows my budget hard; especially since the course is so heavily geared towards winning a"gunfight," which I think can most easily be summed up as "don't get in one in the first place," and given where we live - is the only option you really have.

$700 is about my ammo budget for the entire year; I'd rather learn some simple techniques to practice dry fire at home, and fire 50 rounds a week at the range once a week to practice. I know first hand that's better training than most police and military will ever have, so I think that's enough for me.
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Its not cheap but its well worth it. Dry fire at home without the aid of an instructor to critique your technique is false hope. Doing it wrong over and over again only makes it harder to correct later. At the very least source out some good videos that describe a proper grip technique and work with that. I'll put this out there now, VIDEOS ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR REAL HANDS ON TRAINING.

50 rounds a week at the range without any professional training will lead to a very long very frustrating experience. Shooting or rather the art of marksmanship is a perishable skill and 50 rounds a week will not correct any errors nor will it maintain any good habits. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the shooting discipline is expensive both in time and money.

TDC
 
When I first started shooting, I had a slight flinch. A buddy of mine gave me this dry fire practice drill. Balance a dime on your front sight while dry firing, If you can consistently dry fire without the dime falling off your shots should be going where you are aiming.

I used to do it every night until I did 20 in a row without the dime falling off. The goal is to not have the dime even wobble.

This advice and a buck fiddy will get you a Tim Hortons coffee...
 
One might ask is 50 rounds a week is better then none?

If you are simply repeating bad habits leading to inaccuracies, you are simply further ingraining problems.

I absolutely agree with you about the pricing of certain courses, especially when you compare the resumes of trainers charging that much.

But as stated there is no substitute for hands on training from a skilled and experienced instructor.

You do not need fighting gun training it sounds like, so why not ask around at your range, or here on CGN to see if there is a great IPSC or IDPA shooter in your area that will take you to the range?

Practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent.

PERFECT practice makes perfect.
 
TDC said:
Its not cheap but its well worth it. Dry fire at home without the aid of an instructor to critique your technique is false hope. Doing it wrong over and over again only makes it harder to correct later. At the very least source out some good videos that describe a proper grip technique and work with that. I'll put this out there now, VIDEOS ARE NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR REAL HANDS ON TRAINING.

50 rounds a week at the range without any professional training will lead to a very long very frustrating experience. Shooting or rather the art of marksmanship is a perishable skill and 50 rounds a week will not correct any errors nor will it maintain any good habits. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the shooting discipline is expensive both in time and money.

TDC
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Again, I don't doubt that taking a training course would be valuable; but at this current time, I'm not a professional with a bonafide job requirement to meet. Even at the point in time of my life that I was, I only shot 50 rounds a year.

My requirement is to be able to consistently hit dead centre of a 5" circle, on a 8.5x11" paper target at 7m with my GLOCK17 from a static position. I have taken some professional training before, but at the same time, as with most people here, this is my hobby - and I have car payments and 2 mortgages to pay before I can play.

My training regimine at home is to practice the fundamental principles I've learnt in the past with respect to trigger squeeze, sight picture, grip; and on the range I am consistent with my groupings - just consistently left (I've posted this a few times actually); and I'm looking for ways to fix it.

At first I thought it was my actual sights, thinking they wern't zero'd right, but then I remember reading somewhere that with a handgun, at <25m, the alignment of your sights won't make a pronounced difference, as much as your technique does; hence this post - about ways to improve my technique.

Thanks so far to those as well, who replied with other options besides training courses; I appreciate all advice, but again, it's just not feasible for me to pay +$500, and for my intended results, I don't think I need it. If I were to shift my groupings 3" right, I'd be spot on.

I've taken professional training in a good many things, but I've also self taught a great deal more. In all honesty, I find it infinitely more gratifying to learn a skill mostly on my own (with some advice and feedback from others) than to be told explicitly how to do it. I think that's the difference between a job and a hobby.
 
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Not that I have much to add on the pro-trained vs. self-trained vs. 50 round/week debate . . . but to help you with your specific problem - I too was putting shots to the left with my glock (glock 22).

I ran this problem by some of my police friends who ran it by their instructors. They suggested I was either holding the gun too tight, not pulling the trigger straight back and/or not fully concentrating on my front sight.

So I eased up on the grip - I now "hold" the gun instead of "grip" the gun
I make sure that the front sight is the only thing in perfect focus (indicating I'm concentrating on it)
And the only thing I conciously think of is pulling the trigger straight back each and every time. I make sure that I can feel the glock safe trigger right on the pad of my finger.

Worked for me.
 
harbl, yyyyy's advice to seek out local IPSC or IDPA shooters is right on. Ask around and you will usually find someone in the group who has spent a lot time training new shooters in an informal setting. You will pick up a lot from these guys.

Dry fire practice is very good. One thing I work on in dry fire is watching my sights when I break the shot. I want the sights to stay steady on the target at the break and into the followthru.

If you are not sure if your gun is hitting at the point of aim get some sandbags or a shooting machine and bench it. Barring that find someone with the needed skill and ask them to try it.

I had the same problem when I got my first M&P. Shot low and left. It was my grip. I kept working on it and it no longer a problem. Now when I miss I know it is me not the gun :)

Don't worry about formal training. For 99.9% of us it is a waste of money. I wouldn't consider it unless it was a requirement for employment or I won the Lottery :)

I would rather spend my money on ammo and entry fees.

Relax and have fun.

John
 
Harbi the Cat

Where are you located in Alberta. If around Calgary, get hold of Mass through the ATHL web site. Mass runs an excelent entry level training day course for new shooters entering IDPA. I am sure he would be happy to spend some tme with you. He is an excellent instructor and knows his stuff. He and the ATHL shoot out at the Olds range. I suspect buying him a lunch and a cool one would be money well spent.

PM me and I can get you some contact info if you are interested. If he is busy I am sure he can give you a capable contact to provide you with some instruction. We all have been where you are now and at certain times of your life you got a lot of demand on the dinaros in your pocket.

Take Care

Bob
 
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