Milwaukee PD drop Glock

I

ian_in_vic

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I brought this up in another thread but it really deserves it's own. Apparently (and I don't get this either) the officer managed to fire 13 shots, had a stovepipe, and it's the gun's fault that he got hit. They're replacing the Glock (after having the mags (???) replaced by Glock for free) with the M&P. I'm not a huge fan of the Glock, but there's something really odd here. It doesn't make sense to me. Here's the story:

http://officer.com/web/online/Top-N...e-Department-Finds-Problems-With-Guns/1$46288
 
Interesting story......

I suspect the problem is limpwristing rearing its ugly head. Glocks are known for being unreliable if not held correctly...... Befroe anyone flames me for not drinking kool-aid, I own both a glock and an M&P and if I had to choose between the 2 it would be the M&P!

I see the situation going down like this...... LEO responds to bad guy with gun, recieves fire, returns fire, gets hit, in his weaked state holds the glock in other than the proscribed manner and gets a jam.

Glocks are fine weapons, just a little picky on how they are handled.......

My $.02

Cheers!
 
Next thing they'll be trading off the Crown Vics for Hyundai's..... :p

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
I believe they attribute the jam to bad mags don't they? S&W just did a major refit on their M&P .40 cal for a Georgia Police Department. All the guns for the department had to be refitted. I belive the trigger was the culprit.

All guns have issues of some sort. That is why most major gun companies have service departments.

Take Care

Bob
 
Gun issues aside, I would bet the instructor/trainers at that PD don't spend nearly enough time training the officers basic remedial action drills until they can do them in their sleep.
 
notsorichguy said:
Interesting story......

I suspect the problem is limpwristing rearing its ugly head. Glocks are known for being unreliable if not held correctly...... Befroe anyone flames me for not drinking kool-aid, I own both a glock and an M&P and if I had to choose between the 2 it would be the M&P!

I see the situation going down like this...... LEO responds to bad guy with gun, recieves fire, returns fire, gets hit, in his weaked state holds the glock in other than the proscribed manner and gets a jam.

Glocks are fine weapons, just a little picky on how they are handled.......

My $.02

Cheers!
Click to expand...

Limp wristing is most likely the issue. That being said, how would switching to M&P's change that? Seeing how M&P's and Glocks are very similar in design I would imagine the problem will continue.

TDC
 
If the pistols will not fire with a 'limp wrist' hold then why don't the departments move to a pistol that will function under these conditions. I do not think it is reasonable to assume that all officer's fire will be done as practiced on the firing line, especially when the targets are shooting back.

Are there any forgiving pistols out there that will function no matter the hold? what about a gas operated pistol such as a desert eagle?

Anyways though why didn't they have the 'limp wrist' shot as a reliability criteria when selecting the firearm in the first place given the increasing number of women in the force?
 
z1bam said:
If the pistols will not fire with a 'limp wrist' hold then why don't the departments move to a pistol that will function under these conditions. I do not think it is reasonable to assume that all officer's fire will be done as practiced on the firing line, especially when the targets are shooting back.

Are there any forgiving pistols out there that will function no matter the hold? what about a gas operated pistol such as a desert eagle?

Anyways though why didn't they have the 'limp wrist' shot as a reliability criteria when selecting the firearm in the first place given the increasing number of women in the force?
Click to expand...

The answer to this problem isn't some magical design, it's more training.
 
If the cop fires 13 times and can't put the perp down what does it matter if the gun jams. 13 more are not likely to help. Whenever I read about police shooting I get the idea they need more practice or training.
 
You don't change a whole department's issue firearm due to one isolated incident without serious study. That is a poor decision IMHO.

It is like the gun store and range owner I know who changes his carry pistol after it jams, regardless of the no. of rounds. If it jams after 50, or 2000... I would stick with the pistil known to malfunction 1 in 2000, before going to an untested unknown.
 
Come on TDC. Don't you know 13 rounds of .40 will stop anything!

The perp would have been dead after only 6 rounds of .45.

(or maybe one headshot with .9mm)

;)
 
yyyyy said:
You don't change a whole department's issue firearm due to one isolated incident without serious study. That is a poor decision IMHO.

It is like the gun store and range owner I know who changes his carry pistol after it jams, regardless of the no. of rounds. If it jams after 50, or 2000... I would stick with the pistil known to malfunction 1 in 2000, before going to an untested unknown.
Click to expand...

Well you are basing your opinion on an article. Let's assume for a minute the folks down there are just about as smart as we are. Let's also assume nobody goes through this much trouble unless there is a good reason. If you get by those assumptions then you might be able to accept the fact they made the best decision they could make for their Department.

As to the speculation as to what caused the jam and all the talk about more training from the couch commando crowd, what are you basing your comments on? None here have any idea how much training this department provides their officers or how much the officers train themselves. Fact is you know very little about the incident except for the fact it was enough for the department to investigate, conclude their might be a better pistol solution out there and act upon that conclusion.

Whether or not the shooting incident had anything to do with the decision is not even known. Hell, the Mayor's daughter may have married the S&W sales rep for all we know.

Before all the Glock apologists jump all over this thread it should be also said the LA Sheriffs Dept just dropped the M&P from their approved list of pistols so I guess you win some you lose some.

Take Care

Bob
 
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