ATVs in the Mud

I have been ATV ing for 20 years or more and am not sure where to draw the line. Either way we are changeing the enviroment. We usually try to stick to established cut lines and not cut new trails. But there are times when the bog or muskeg is just so bad you have to find a way around it. Some guys revel in trying to get through it. I guess they like the challenge. It all depends on what you consider fun, There needs to be some education I personally do not believe from most of the people I have met out there they are there to destroy. We ran into a group of guys out there that were rideing in the creek and tearing it up, I explained that the banks and repairian zone were sensitive areas and that churning up the creek bed was harming the fish and possibly
wrecking spawning beds. They were not into stream fishing and didn't think a stream that small even had any fish in it. They had no idea what they were doing and felt pretty bad about it when they knew.

I will probably get slagged for this but maybe there needs to be a licence requirement for driveing an ATV off private property, and to get a licence there would be a training program of the do's and don'ts of ATV ing.
I don't mention this lightly because any one that knows me knows how much I hate ####ing rules.

One way or another where ever humans go we change the landscape, for the good or the bad would depend on your outlook but the world has been changeing since the bigining of time. One of my favorite places to go was a place called Prarie Creek and I have witnessed the change over 20 years.
Industry has allowed access which has got people #####ing about this so called destruction of the enviroment. But it is ok for industry to make logging roads and put up gas plants and make cut lines. It's ok when a huge beaver dam bursts and washes out the creek or a tree falls over and winds up in the creek but if some off roaders change the enviroment somehow that is a problem.

My only ##### with the ATV ing is pick up your ####ing crap and take it home with you. For 20 years I have been bringing home more #### than I took with me. From broken lawn chairs to cans of WD40 and broken glass, I can't believe the crap some of these people leave behind you should see some of the campsites after a long weekend.
 
Industry has allowed access which has got people #####ing about this so called destruction of the enviroment. But it is ok for industry to make logging roads and put up gas plants and make cut lines. It's ok when a huge beaver dam bursts and washes out the creek or a tree falls over and winds up in the creek but if some off roaders change the enviroment somehow that is a problem.

My only ##### with the ATV ing is pick up your f**king crap and take it home with you. For 20 years I have been bringing home more s**t than I took with me. From broken lawn chairs to cans of WD40 and broken glass, I can't believe the crap some of these people leave behind you should see some of the campsites after a long weekend.
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I agree with both points. We used to camp at an abandon DNR camp site near Big River. We were sitting around the fire and had the CO's come in to check on us. They were suprised to see us there, and even more suprised to hear we'd been camping there several times per summer for the last 10 years. We ALWAYS left the place cleaner than we found it.
 
I have a problem when the trails I could drive with my truck 5 years ago are now cut up by quads so bad you cant get a quad down them without getting stuck. Every little low spot where any water was has been chewed up into a big mud hole.

There is an "ATV guide" who set up in the area about 5 years ago and has destroyed every trail in the process. Only good thing is that they have destroyed all the trails between where they start and where I park my truck and can't get into the area that I'm hunting any more.

What's the appeal in getting muddy and stuck, having to dig and push and winch.
 
powder burner said:
Ignorance: A destitute of knowledge or education < an ignorant society> ; also lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence.

Wetlands or what idiots like you commonly refer to as "the skeg" filters water.

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005566


Because of its importance to wildlife, WATER resources and the northern environment, muskeg is no longer considered wasteland. When managed properly, organic soils on peat have excellent capability for agriculture and forestry. Peat products have long-established uses in horticulture, and there is renewed interest in peat as an alternate ENERGY source. Peat provides raw materials for the CHEMICAL INDUSTRY (resins, waxes, paints, etc) and can serve as an efficient filter for some HAZARDOUS WASTES.

Now, if you would like to prove your ignorance on the subject, please continue to make an ass out of yourself.
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Actually you are proving your OWN ignorance. How do you seem to think you know so much about were I quad???? Can you tell me how long it takes for the muskeg around here to heal up after someone had been through it?? Please tell me in detail about all the micro climates around here, and how they they affect vegetation growth. What's that??? You don't know fauck all.... Well let me tell you.


In areas were there is good growing conditions the muskeg will heal up very fast. You can rip it up during spring bear season and it will look brand new by deer season. I have some gas wells that I quad into once a month for work. Even In a months time the regrowth can be phenomenal. There is no harm what so ever in driving through these areas because they come back so fast. The amount of quad traffic in places i like to quad is so small that there is little to no "trails". It is all cut lines, thousands of them, 99% which have NO quad tracks. In fact I detest quading on beaten paths. So.. one guy ripping up muskeg every once in a while out where no one else goes has little to no effect. The trick is you stay off it until it regrows.


In areas were the growing conditions are poor, the muskeg takes much longer to heal up, I don't rip these areas up because it could take 2 years for things to get back to normal. The area where I hunt moose is like this. I try not to rip up these areas. Why would I want to look at my own destruction every time I hunt moose??? I don't



All of this discussion is silly anyway... since many of the very cut lines we are debating were, in fact, torn down to dirt the entire width across and miles long back when they were made and have since come back to the point where they are willow choked and nearly unpassable. And you are worried about a quad track. Geezzz get a clue.
 
ATV riders are always their own worst enemy. Those that bother to get informed and organize suffer the consquences of those who have no business owning a ATV
 
Atvs will have different effects on different places, I find hunters, go slow and careful, so not to break their stuff, and there is a difference between trail and paths, and routes. Now this mudding , snorkel thingie, to put your atv in water and mud up the the bars, and go like snot on fire, so the guy behind is got less to drive on is just beyond my level of thinking. And these derbies, holy crap, you should see the damage to water logged spring time derby trails!!! The more that go through when wet, the more damage.

If you disperse soil and surface matter, to the point of effecting water drainage, making deeper pockets of water is changing the table, and the surrounded vegetation.

All routes, trails and paths, should be in my mind to any point should be on the hardest ground, where the least damage can be done, if it takes you longer to get there so what!
 
Republic of Alberta said:
Actually you are proving your OWN ignorance. How do you seem to think you know so much about were I quad???? Can you tell me how long it takes for the muskeg around here to heal up after someone had been through it?? Please tell me in detail about all the micro climates around here, and how they they affect vegetation growth. What's that??? You don't know fauck all.... Well let me tell you.


In areas were there is good growing conditions the muskeg will heal up very fast. You can rip it up during spring bear season and it will look brand new by deer season. I have some gas wells that I quad into once a month for work. Even In a months time the regrowth can be phenomenal. There is no harm what so ever in driving through these areas because they come back so fast. The amount of quad traffic in places i like to quad is so small that there is little to no "trails". It is all cut lines, thousands of them, 99% which have NO quad tracks. In fact I detest quading on beaten paths. So.. one guy ripping up muskeg every once in a while out where no one else goes has little to no effect. The trick is you stay off it until it regrows.


In areas were the growing conditions are poor, the muskeg takes much longer to heal up, I don't rip these areas up because it could take 2 years for things to get back to normal. The area where I hunt moose is like this. I try not to rip up these areas. Why would I want to look at my own destruction every time I hunt moose??? I don't



All of this discussion is silly anyway... since many of the very cut lines we are debating were, in fact, torn down to dirt the entire width across and miles long back when they were made and have since come back to the point where they are willow choked and nearly unpassable. And you are worried about a quad track. Geezzz get a clue.
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Put 600 quads in a day through the cutline to your well site. Then tell me what you think about people who dont disturb the muskeg cause its just moss.

Put 600 quads in a day through your trapline and tell me how it is to go hunting, fishing, checking traps.

Most quads have winches. I didnt buy a quad so I could winch my ass all day on my trapline. I bought it to ride and access my area.
 
I can understand your frustrations, it's like like I said here:




Republic of Alberta said:
I go out and rip up the muskeg all the time. So does almost everyone I know. Some places it is ok to do it, like out in the middle of no where where it disturbs no one and environmental impact is non existent.

Other places it is not ok to do it, like around the areas the urbanites go to see "nature" or where there is REAL environmental impact, be it a sensitive area or impact due to the high numbers of ATVs.
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Alright then


Now, I would like to share the following with everybody:

These are the arseholes who will ruin it for everybody, the same meatheads who insist on doing the same with 4wheel drive trucks.

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/videos.html

This really gets my blood boiling. intentionally going out to rip and tear everything up. Then guess who gets blamed for it? ALL people who own ATVs not the few members of Meatheads who happen to own quads.

Snorkel? 30 inch quad tires? Lift Kits? Rads mounted on front racks? dead quad sitting in a creek leaking oil and gas downstream into MY fishing area...
 
It's always something,atv's are under attack because of a few,their are a lot of enviromentally respectfull atvers.Sometimes it causes more damage to continually cut new trails around a mudhole than just going through it.Their is enviromential inpacts with every outdoor activity we do.If we used only mountain bikes people would complain about the narrow deep trenches through the brush that we have made.Before the 4 wheel drive atv's came out it was the lifted 4x4 trucks and after atv's it will be mountain bike tires and then the deep lugs on hiking boots.All respectfull power sports users need to ban together and at the same time try and educate and rid the sport of the wrong doers.
 
grit said:
It's always something,atv's are under attack because of a few,their are a lot of enviromentally respectfull atvers.Sometimes it causes more damage to continually cut new trails around a mudhole than just going through it.Their is enviromential inpacts with every outdoor activity we do.If we used only mountain bikes people would complain about the narrow deep trenches through the brush that we have made.Before the 4 wheel drive atv's came out it was the lifted 4x4 trucks and after atv's it will be mountain bike tires and then the deep lugs on hiking boots.All respectfull power sports users need to ban together and at the same time try and educate and rid the sport of the wrong doers.
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Well put, education and understanding is the only thing that can solve the problem. Everybody looks at most things only from ther own perspective.

The last time I was ATV ing in the Cadomin area before they closed it (so it could be mined for coal again). The non hunting or shooting inlaws that I went with were horrified that they could hear gun shots, and that they might get hit with a stray bullet, and that shouldn't be allowed blah blah blah.
I had to inform them that maybe they should have stayed home as it was ####ING HUNTING SEASON, dip####s that they are.

The Government needs to help out and so do we. We took a trail that crossed the Cardinal Divide, the was a sign that explained the sensitivity of the area and asked that all atv's and hikers, as well as horses stay on the trail. Well aperantly it was working because there was no sign of any damage off the trail. I know of some atv clubs that have built bridges over creeks with the help of Fish and Wildlife. But I am sure even that isn't acceptable to some of the enviro-lunes.

There needs to be some rules set up and we all need to be ready to report ofenders.
 
What alot of people don't realise is that ,it's the skidoo and atv clubs that maintain alot of the trails, building bridges and clearing wind blown tress off the trails.The skidoo club up here in whitehorse has done a great job on the dawson trail,nice new bridge and many smaller bridges over the mudholes.If we can promote everyone to wear a helmet, and to slow down when passing others on the trails,and to tread lightly it will make a big difference.Everyone who owns a skidoo or atv should join a club and get involved,or this sport will be one of the things we look back on and say remember the good old days..Whitehorse is in dire need of an atv association.
 
grit said:
What alot of people don't realise is that ,it's the skidoo and atv clubs that maintain alot of the trails, building bridges and clearing wind blown tress off the trails.The skidoo club up here in whitehorse has done a great job on the dawson trail,nice new bridge and many smaller bridges over the mudholes.If we can promote everyone to wear a helmet, and to slow down when passing others on the trails,and to tread lightly it will make a big difference.Everyone who owns a skidoo or atv should join a club and get involved,or this sport will be one of the things we look back on and say remember the good old days..Whitehorse is in dire need of an atv association.
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Yukon has a pretty small population to have an ATV association.
I wonder if by any chance, you could associate with the BC association?
Here is the BC web site.

http://www.atvbc.ca/
 
Thanks H4831.It would be great to get organized and maybe do some fund raising rides,a great way to help change the public perseption,and to do help others.
 
powder burner said:
Alright then
These are the arseholes who will ruin it for everybody, the same meatheads who insist on doing the same with 4wheel drive trucks.

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/photos.html

http://mud#####.com/videos.html

This really gets my blood boiling. intentionally going out to rip and tear everything up. Then guess who gets blamed for it? ALL people who own ATVs not the few members of Meatheads who happen to own quads.
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Nice to see this site is about Alberta. Also great to see the "Quad Squad" is mentioned right up front. So much for promoting responsible riding!

AB should follow BC's lead on this issue (but ONLY this issue), fine the living piss out of anyone caught riding in a creek or closed area, say $25,000 and impound their quad. Might make the A-holes that are the problem think twice..... maybe.
 
beefman said:
I don't understand why someone would intentionally abuse the crap out of a $10,000 ATV...is that supposed to be fun? :confused:

Sure, I've been in some bad-a$$ places (swamps), and gotten stuck...but I was not there for sh!ts and giggles. ;)
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Yes tooling on expensive toys is fun. Why do you think they're toys? Are you one of those guys that spends all day shining his rig while everyone else plays in the mud?:nest: No i'm not saying wrecking sensitive crown land is a good idea but sometimes it's fun to get dirty.
 
Fines could be issued and should be for riding in restricted area's.Let not get into a position that anyone who crosses a creek is subjected to a fine,that would be getting ridiculous.WE should be responsible but lets not suggest we start living in bubbles.We also shouldn't assume anyone who mud rides is an environmental terrorist,there are places that it is acceptable to do so,the spawning grounds of fish is not the place though.
 
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