what caliber for my new sheep rifle

[dpopl8r]

When I said "introduced", I was referring to factory offerings. If the AIs are that good, everyone would want one and the factories would offer them in factory loads and rifles.

How much flatter shooting would a 280AI be than a 270?

Even though I voted 280 AI, truth is my personal sheep rifle is a .standard 280 Rem pushing 140 accubonds at a boring 2900 fps . But my .280 has worked well on my rams (and piles of other critters), and even with the lack of AI velocity, it still managed to drop my second ram at over 500 yards.

If I ever burn out this barrel I will rebarrel to 280 AI, but only if it feeds, and even then just for kicks.

 

[Rembo]

Aside from the .22-250AI I swiped from Stonechaser,Rembo's old .280AI is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned(and I've had some good ones!).We're talking 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups at 200yds,and a better rifleman than me could probably do better.It will be going with me on a sheep/goat/caribou hunt this fall.I'm sure that I'm not the only one on this board that knows,Rembo builds accurate rifles. Mur

Mur,..your 280AI has a King tube IIRC....that rifle was a good one from day one..this one will have a Gaillard....

is that 22-250AI you got from stonechaser the barrel that I rechambered from 223AI and put on a different action?...it's a 10" twist Gaillard I think, if it's the one I'm thinking of....

sorry for the hijack....

 

[rem338win]

Aside from the .22-250AI I swiped from Stonechaser,Rembo's old .280AI is the most accurate rifle I have ever owned(and I've had some good ones!).We're talking 1/2 to 3/4 inch groups at 200yds,and a better rifleman than me could probably do better.It will be going with me on a sheep/goat/caribou hunt this fall.I'm sure that I'm not the only one on this board that knows,Rembo builds accurate rifles. Mur

More accurate than this Mur? (sorry, I know this really isn't greatful)
I am shocked! (for the record it is a .284 Win.)

 

[rem338win]

According to the Nosler data,the 280AI drives a 10gr heavier Accubond(130gr vs 140gr) with a highr B.C. at over 150fps more than the 270win.With a 200 yard zero,that amounts to about 2-1/2" difference at 400 yards and about 5" difference at 500 yards.


Absolute B.S.Higher velocity cartridges almost always produce higher velocity because of larger case capacity,not because of higher chamber pressure.That applies to most cartridges,not just the AI cartridges.

As far as feeding goes,my 280AI feeds just fine.

Actually, if we are going to calculate bore vs capacity, and 10grs difference and properly apply 1% in velocity for every 4% of increase of case volume and compare, the average would only be 80fps-ish between the two in a 24" tube, which means sweet #### all in the real world. .270, 280, 284, same pile my friend. We pick cartridges in this part of the world on plain old "I want". Please try not to make this a game of practicality.
O'Connor killed more sheep with his .270 than anyone packing a 280AI, so Jack wins, kapeesh?

 

[stubblejumper]

O'Connor killed more sheep with his .270 than anyone packing a 280AI, so Jack wins, kapeesh?

Using your logic, since Bell killed more elephants with the .275 Rigby,than any other hunter killed with any other cartridge,the .275 Rigby must be the best elephant cartridge.Kapeesh?

 

[chuck nelson]

Mur,..your 280AI has a King tube IIRC....

Ironically, the most accurate rifle I've ever owned was a LH SS Model 70 300 Win Mag and it wore a King barrel. In a moment of weakness I sold it to someone in Saskatchewan.

 

[chuck nelson]

Using your logic, since Bell killed more elephants with the .275 Rigby,than any other hunter killed with any other cartridge,the .275 Rigby must be the best elephant cartridge.Kapeesh?

O'Connor hunted his sheep under very similar circumstances to what we hunt them today. You could in no way say that about Bell and his Elephants.

 

[chuck nelson]

For sheep cartridges on a LA I'd go .280, on a short action I'd go 7mm-08. Just because.

 

[Redhouse]

Yet another 'be carefull about the feeding thing' if you decide to go AI. I have a 260AI that just makes a cluttered mess if I put em in the mag. Was digging them out with my multitool the one time I tried, even after dropping the floorplate. As it's not a hunting rifle, I'm basically OK with it being a single shot.

 

[chuck nelson]

Yet another 'be carefull about the feeding thing' if you decide to go AI. I have a 260AI that just makes a cluttered mess if I put em in the mag. Was digging them out with my multitool the one time I tried, even after dropping the floorplate. As it's not a hunting rifle, I'm basically OK with it being a single shot.

What receiver?

 

[stubblejumper]

O'Connor hunted his sheep under very similar circumstances to what we hunt them today. You could in no way say that about Bell and his Elephants.

You are of course correct.O'Connor killed a very high percentage of his sheep on guided hunts,when licenses were easier to obtain.Bell did most of his hunting on his own.With enough money to book as many guided hunts as O'Connor was on,and with licenses as easy to get as they were for much of his hunting career,I would wager that many of us could kill as many sheep as he did.

 

[stephen492]

7MM Rem. Mag

 

[rem338win]

O'Connor hunted his sheep under very similar circumstances to what we hunt them today. You could in no way say that about Bell and his Elephants.

Nor did "Karimojo" have to leave civilization to go and shoot up to 25 elephants in one day. (pssst, the topic is sheep rifles though, and Bell didn't kill any Dalls)
And most of my Big Horn tags come over the counter still today. My point is, that arguing that the 280 AI is ballistically superior to the venerable .270 is comparing Grannies to Macintosh, cause they are both apples.
Personally, I don't know what I would choose between the two. Probably a .270 Gibbs.
For the record my new sheep rifle is the .284 with the groups I posted. And I wouldn't hunt an elephant with a 7mm, even if you put Rigby behind it.

 

[stubblejumper]

(pssst, the topic is sheep rifles though, and Bell didn't kill any Dalls)

Do you know that for a fact?After all,Bell did send some time in the Yukon both to hunt,and to take part in the Yukon Gold Rush.Can you be certain that he didn't shoot any Dalls during his stay in the Yukon?

 

[chuck nelson]

Nor did "Karimojo" have to leave civilization to go and shoot up to 25 elephants in one day. (pssst, the topic is sheep rifles though, and Bell didn't kill any Dalls)
And most of my Big Horn tags come over the counter still today. My point is, that arguing that the 280 AI is ballistically superior to the venerable .270 is comparing Grannies to Macintosh, cause they are both apples.
Personally, I don't know what I would choose between the two. Probably a .270 Gibbs.
For the record my new sheep rifle is the .284 with the groups I posted. And I wouldn't hunt an elephant with a 7mm, even if you put Rigby behind it.

Exactly.

The 270 as a sheep rifle has validity today. The 7X57 as an Elephant rifle IMO has none. Possibly hundreds of .270's will hit the sheep mountains this fall, and I'd wager that no .275 will go after an Elephant.

 

[rem338win]

Do you know that for a fact?After all,Bell did send some time in the Yukon both to hunt,and to take part in the Yukon Gold Rush.Can you be certain that he didn't shoot any Dalls during his stay in the Yukon?

Hey, post something about Karimojo shooting some sheep. He was an original gun/hunting writer and he wrote about shooting ducks out of the air with his .303 with bad ammo, so I am sure he would have scribed about his sheep hunting exploits too. If they are out there I would love to read them. Did he use his trusty 280 AI on any of those hunts (my turn to enter role eyes smiley now)? Why they need to defend your new Cooper? Let the lion defend itself.....................................

And for Bigbears sake, lets get back to the facts:

All of the velocities are out of 24" tubes and are factual as far as I know and all have been calculated with 250yd zeros:

6.5-06 AI with 140gr Bergers at 3050fps:

100yds: 2.2" with 2635ft\lbs
300yds:-3.0" with 2180ft\lbs
500yds:-28.2" with 1790ft\lbs

Wind deflection 10mph at 90 degrees 500yds: 11.1"

270 WCF with 150gr Bergers at 3000fps:

100yds: 2.3" with 2548ft\lbs
200yds:-3.1" with 2106ft\lbs
500yds:-29.2" with 1727ft\lbs

Wind deflection 10mph at 90 degrees 500yds: 11.3"

280 AI with 168gr Bergers at 2900fps (you can claim more than this if you want, but you will be over the SAAMI pressure limits):

100yds: 2.6" with 2379ft\lbs
300yds:-3.4" with 1960ft\lbs
500yds:-31.5" with 1602ft\lbs

Wind deflection 10mph at 90 degrees 500yds: 11.9"

and just so the 280 AI fan club doesn't scream foul:

280AI with 140gr Bergers at 3175fps:

100yds: 2.0" with 2859ft\lbs
300yds:-2.8" with 2371ft\lbs
500yds:-25.8" with 1954ft\lbs

Wind deflection 10mph at 90 degrees 500yds: 10.5"

Again, pretty much all apples, and the 280 with 140's comes out the winner by less than 4" and 227ft\lbs at 500yds over the old 270 WCF. Woo hooo.

I'd say pick on your own idea of coolness factor there Bigbear. These are all great sheep cartridges.

 

[stubblejumper]

Hey, post something about Karimojo shooting some sheep.

I didn't say that he did shoot Dalls,but you plainly stated that he did not shoot any Dalls.As such,yours is the only unproven statement.

As for his Yukon exploits,it was early in his life and little was written about these early exploits,other than the fact that he hunted there,and took part in the gold rush.

Why they need to defend your new Cooper?

I have no need to defend my Cooper rifle or anything else.Rather it is you that is being defensive because I challenged your silly logic concerning O'Connor and why you think that it makes the 270win the best sheep cartridge.Then I also pointed out that Bell did hunt in the Yukon and may have killed Dall sheep,after you so plainly stated that he has never killed a Dall.You are being as defensive as the police at the taser inquiry.

Again, pretty much all apples, and the 280 with 140's comes out the winner by less than 4" and 227ft\lbs at 500yds over the old 270 WCF.

But still the winner.

 

[Omega]

I'm currently "interviewing" 2 rifles for my new sheep gun. Both are new production models and both are in the new king of sheep cartridges - 270 wsm.

 

[srt4u2nv]

100gr TXS out of a .257wby at 3700fps

Those stats above for the 280ai are BS! my calc shows a 500yd energy on the 140gr berger with a 3250fps muzzle velocity is roughly 1655lbs not 1954lbs.

 

[stubblejumper]

Those stats above for the 280ai are BS! my calc shows a 500yd energy on the 140gr berger with a 3250fps muzzle velocity is roughly 1655lbs not 1954lbs.

The ballistics calculator that I use agrees,but it also has the 500 yard energy for the 270win with the 150gr Berger at 1555ftlbs.Using the same calculator,the energy at 500 yards for the 280AI with the 168gr Berger is 1779ftlbs.