what caliber for my new sheep rifle

stubblejumper said:
I didn't say that he did shoot Dalls,but you plainly stated that he did not shoot any Dalls.As such,yours is the only unproven statement.

I have no need to defend my Cooper rifle or anything else.Rather it is you that is being defensive because I challenged your silly logic concerning O'Connor and why you think that it makes the 270win the best sheep cartridge.Then I also pointed out that Bell did hunt in the Yukon and may have killed Dall sheep,after you so plainly stated that he has never killed a Dall.You are being as defensive as the police at the taser inquiry.:D
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No, I actually called BS on any real life advantage in the 280 AI over the old fashioned 270 WCF. I have no need to defend the 270, as it's pedigree defends itself. And do you have any of those old "Yukon" Bell huntnig stories to post, or are you still wagging gum and getting hissy about unproven game. I don't jump to any conclusion other than I'd bet a bottle that the .270 has killed a hell of a lot more sheep than the 280 AI. Though ballistically they are the same.

Those stats above for the 280ai are BS! my calc shows a 500yd energy on the 140gr berger with a 3250fps muzzle velocity is roughly 1655lbs not 1954lbs.
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As for the 280 AI tables being BS, two things:

1) I put the proper info intot the right places on the chart for Bergers only and those are the numbers it spit out. Sooooo sorry.

2) If you are getting 3250fps out of a 280AI and 140gr with a 24" barrel, you are not shooting within SAAMI for the cartridge. Pretty simple.
 
rem338win said:
Actually, if we are going to calculate bore vs capacity, and 10grs difference and properly apply 1% in velocity for every 4% of increase of case volume and compare, the average would only be 80fps-ish between the two in a 24" tube, which means sweet #### all in the real world. .270, 280, 284, same pile my friend. We pick cartridges in this part of the world on plain old "I want". Please try not to make this a game of practicality. O'Connor killed more sheep with his .270 than anyone packing a 280AI, so Jack wins, kapeesh?
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stubblejumper said:
Using your logic, since Bell killed more elephants with the .275 Rigby,than any other hunter killed with any other cartridge,the .275 Rigby must be the best elephant cartridge.Kapeesh?
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Again I called out the fact that a 270 can push a 130gr bullet at 3150fps, and I have yet to see a published load anywhere that says a 280AI can throw 140gr pills at 3300fps. The math and reality don't match up with the statement here.
If you want a .280 AI all the power to you, it'll do just as good of a job as the old 270. But to say that it'll be much better is a long stretch. And how you got into the whole Bell thing is still beyond most of us. Apples to apples still, though I will admit that the 40 degree should does look cooler.
 
I have yet to see a published load anywhere that says a 280AI can throw 140gr pills at 3300fps.
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Would you care to point out where I claimed that the 280AI can drive 140gr bullets at 3300fps?I didn't think so,since it never happened.:rolleyes:

If you are getting 3250fps out of a 280AI and 140gr with a 24" barrel, you are not shooting within SAAMI for the cartridge. Pretty simple.
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Tell that to Nosler,since you seem to think that you know more about the topic than they do.

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=7mm&s=172

I believe that the velocity for the R-22 load is 3265fps.And that is not even using a coating such as moly which allows more velocity for the same pressure.


I guess that you have been drinking out of that bottle that you want to bet.:D
 
But you are trying oh so hard to make it yours.
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Actually it was YOU that was posting about the great long range shot that you made with the 30-06,and how the 30-06 was such a sensible choice in chamberings.It was YOU that mentioned that the same rifle was rebarreled to 280AI.Therefore it was only logical that I ask why you would spend money to rechamber to a cartridge other than that great and ever so sensible 30-06.
 
rem338win said:
And do you have any of those old "Yukon" Bell huntnig stories to post, ....
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It is historical fact that Bell spent time in the Yukon, mostly in the Dawson City area, shooting game to provide meat for the town.(John M. MacKenzie, 'The Empire of Nature, 1997) There were many 'hunters' making a living doing the same thing and sheep were the most valuable meat animal (Pierre Burton, 1975). While I know of no direct reference to Bell having killed a Dall Sheep, it is fact he was a 'meat hunter' in the YK and sheep were the most prized game in the area, then its reasonable to conclude there is a high probability that he did have experience with Dall Sheep.
 
If it were me, and my choice I would grab my 7mm mag the darn thing is just hard to beat for this type of hunt, other choices of (my Choices) would be a 264 wm or 300 wm and should add the 30-06 is a notable cartridge in my eyes for such a task.

I have no doubt the 25 cal family deserves credit ( it does) and I do have found respect for them, but for me its more of a plans game pronger..or deer cartridge.

I do have reason for my choice for sheep, wind, elevation , and distance may play a role in your hunt most likely will, I would rather a bullet not as effected by the elements , and carries a higher velocity past 300 yards. nessasary (NO) but more comfortable in my eyes tells me yes.
 
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stubblejumper said:
Actually it was YOU that was posting about the great long range shot that you made with the 30-06,and how the 30-06 was such a sensible choice in chamberings.It was YOU that mentioned that the same rifle was rebarreled to 280AI.Therefore it was only logical that I ask why you would spend money to rechamber to a cartridge other than that great and ever so sensible 30-06.
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It was YOU that assumed I prefer the 30-06!

Just because I may prefer the 280 AI does not make the 30-06 any less sensible of a sheep cartridge! I can only assume that you've shot sheep with it and have come to a different conclusion.
 
Bigbear said:
I have a Ultralight weatherby standard action and bolt face. so it has to be a non magnum round. It can also be a short action or standard action caliber. I am thinking 280 rem AI, 7-08 AI, 6.5-06 AI or 25-06 AI. let me know if you use any of these rounds or if you have any better ideas.
thanks
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How bout this for argument sake???

Sell your action and buy a stainless Remington SPS in 270WSM. Get it smoothed up, accurized and then plant it in one of those $499 McMillan Edge stocks they are flogging off on 24HR Campfire.


.
 
SuperCub said:
How bout this for argument sake???

Sell your action and buy a stainless Remington SPS in 270WSM. Get it smoothed up, accurized and then plant it in one of those $499 McMillan Edge stocks they are flogging off on 24HR Campfire.


.
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sell your action and buy a Kimber Montana in 7mmWSM...a 280AI in a short action.....
 
I love these on line peeing matches that accomplish nothing. How does a factory loaded 150 grain bullet out of a 270 WSM @ 3150 fps fit into the mix? Inexpensive rifles and off the shelf ammo in a short action that eclipses the 280AI. Dang!
 
Off the rails...

What's with the WSM, 7RM, etc. crap??

If we go back to the original poster's question, he states he wants to use an existing action and bolt face, that it is a long action but he may use a short action cartridge.

Okay, back on topic...
 
SakoAlberta said:
It is historical fact that Bell spent time in the Yukon, mostly in the Dawson City area, shooting game to provide meat for the town.(John M. MacKenzie, 'The Empire of Nature, 1997) There were many 'hunters' making a living doing the same thing and sheep were the most valuable meat animal (Pierre Burton, 1975). While I know of no direct reference to Bell having killed a Dall Sheep, it is fact he was a 'meat hunter' in the YK and sheep were the most prized game in the area, then its reasonable to conclude there is a high probability that he did have experience with Dall Sheep.
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But did he use a 280AI and write about it;):weird:
(I have the three volumes written on Bell and his rifles which include personal journal entries. I like Bell, and hold his marksmanship in high regard)

chuck nelson said:
It was YOU that assumed I prefer the 30-06!

Just because I may prefer the 280 AI does not make the 30-06 any less sensible of a sheep cartridge! I can only assume that you've shot sheep with it and have come to a different conclusion.
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I think this all started with his assumptions, and that I disliked his 280 AI and felt that the 270 was better, though I have posted evidence to the contrary to support the position I originally took. I only took a dislike to his tossing aside of the 270 when in reality they are the same thing when they hit game at all ranges.:rolleyes:

Omega said:
I love these on line peeing matches that accomplish nothing. How does a factory loaded 150 grain bullet out of a 270 WSM @ 3150 fps fit into the mix? Inexpensive rifles and off the shelf ammo in a short action that eclipses the 280AI. Dang!
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Again apples apples apples. Same hot girl in a different dress. 130-150gr bullets at 3100 to 3200 fps. Sheep don't care; we do.
 
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stubblejumper said:
Would you care to point out where I claimed that the 280AI can drive 140gr bullets at 3300fps?I didn't think so,since it never happened.:rolleyes:
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stubblejumper said:
According to the Nosler data,the 280AI drives a 10gr heavier Accubond(130gr vs 140gr) with a highr B.C. at over 150fps more than the 270win.With a 200 yard zero,that amounts to about 2-1/2" difference at 400 yards and about 5" difference at 500 yards.
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Right here, Sugar. Indirectly, but warrants a conviction.


Tell that to Nosler,since you seem to think that you know more about the topic than they do.

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=7mm&s=172

I believe that the velocity for the R-22 load is 3265fps.And that is not even using a coating such as moly which allows more velocity for the same pressure.
I guess that you have been drinking out of that bottle that you want to bet.:D
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Nope, cause that data is with a 26" tube and I have been talking 24" the whole time. Nosler knows their stuff. Add at least 30fps (in high velocity rounds with barrels over 22" it is commonly accepted that 50fps is the gain per inch) per inch and have a nice day. (Don't worry, I already asked John Jr. on 24HR).

Notes: rifle: barrel: Wiseman; length: 26"; twist: 1-9"; case: Nosler; primer: Fed. 210; maximum SAAMI overall cartridge length: 3.330"; bullets: 140 grain Nosler Solid Base Ballistic Tip (red), CT Ballistic Silvertip, Partition Spitzer or AccuBond; use maximum loads with caution
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140 Nosler Alliant RL-19 63.0 3,257
Remarks: maximum load; compressed load
140 Nosler Alliant RL-19 61.0 3,127
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and the .270 Winchester for comparison with a 2" shorter tube:

Notes: rifle: barrel: Shilen; length: 24"; twist: 1-10"; case: Winchester; primer: Fed. 210; bullets: 130 grain Nosler Solid Base Ballistic Tip (yellow), CT Ballistic Silvertip, Partition Spitzer or AccuBond; USE MAXIMUM LOADS WITH CAUTION
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130 Nosler Winchester W-760 54.0 3158
Remarks: maximum load; most accurate load tested
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And if you really want another apples to apples comparison pick up the Barnes Number 6 Manual and compare the RL19 velocities between the .270 WCF and the 7mm SAUM. By the way the 7mm SAUM and the 280 AI have less than a grain of capacity difference, but I am sure you already knew that.

Not doing so well thus far.

My point has been exhausted really and no one else is enjoying our hot air anymore.;)
 
I see this thread had alot of input, just curious why no one has mentioned the 300WSM, is it too big or do people think it would add weight to a sheep rifle or is it a ballistics thing, I would really like your guys feedback on this, thanks guys.
 
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