Although I said I had by two cents and was done with it,I would not afree that to be the case. I merely thought (MY OPINION) that outfitters,those ecspecially guiding moose in NFLD could/would be served better by orienting their prices to the economic environment. I dont know why I didnt think of this example a long time ago. The bou outfitter up in baffin I used to go with had two plans,one real spiffy lodge with the cook etc,one was a few hundred off, you stayed in a wall tent type thing and looked after yourself. That would be just one of many ways to go about it where as no body really looses,it suits some folk who are financially tighter,and hell some folk just like to hack it when they hunt. Using even that simple idea of selling some lower priced hunts due to the people not being catered to I still think is better than having some weeks un-booked, and nobody comes out looking as the above poster mentioned
Are outfitters just not getting it?
- Thread starter laughingfool
- Start date
Although I said I had by two cents and was done with it,I would not afree that to be the case. I merely thought (MY OPINION) that outfitters,those ecspecially guiding moose in NFLD could/would be served better by orienting their prices to the economic environment. I dont know why I didnt think of this example a long time ago. The bou outfitter up in baffin I used to go with had two plans,one real spiffy lodge with the cook etc,one was a few hundred off, you stayed in a wall tent type thing and looked after yourself. That would be just one of many ways to go about it where as no body really looses,it suits some folk who are financially tighter,and hell some folk just like to hack it when they hunt. Using even that simple idea of selling some lower priced hunts due to the people not being catered to I still think is better than having some weeks un-booked, and nobody comes out looking as the above poster mentioned
Obviously, the outfitter you contacted is marketing his business to the appreciative sportsmen who have sufficient disposable income to pay $4000.00 for a top notch, fully guided hunt from a comfortable lodge, with all the amenities without whining. Not the frugal opportunist who believes that he is entitled to a better price because, well..."...things are tough all over!"
Right now gas is selling for 1.15/L in some areas! In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, it hit over $1.50/L. There is 13% HST tax charged on everything, even some groceries and electricity. Operating a small business myself, (I'm not an outfitter!) I know all too well just how much it costs in taxes and deductions to provide employment opportunities. Then you also have to factor in Worker's Compensation fees, that are determined based on the industry code of the work involved and your annual payroll. For business involved in the more "dangerous" industries with larger payrolls, Worker's Comp payments can easily run into the thousands!
Then you have annual maintenance costs and upkeep on your properties. Float plane/helicopter leases/rental costs or upkeep if you own your own aircraft. Mechanic/hanger fees, parts, POL costs. ATVs and maintenance. Support personnel costs...guys who cook, make the beds, sweep the lodge, set-up spike camps (wall tents, plywood shacks), skinners, trophy care/taxidermy and roustabouts. It takes a lot of people and money to keep even a half dozen hunters in the field properly fed and cared for. Most outfitters on the Rock will also offer FREE upland hunting and provide shotguns/dogs if you tag out early and the game is in season.
If you don't like the outfitter's price, shop around! If every single Newfoundland outfitter offering Moose hunts is "too expensive" for a welder, (who should be earning anywhere from $25-$70 bucks/hr depending on qualifications/certification) then I really suggest you try one on the mainland or up north. How about Jim Shockey and an Alaska-Yukon Moose hunt in the Yukon? Will only run you around $12,000.00-$13,000.00 not including airfare and extras! Definitely a bargain!
Sorry, don't mean to crap all over you, but the way you've worded your posts and and this sense of "entitlement" you seem to have, despite making oodles of money as a welder, (along with your other responses) just bug the $hit out of me!
Why try and nickel and dime some small business owner when that $200 "discount" you're trying to wrangle really doesn't mean all that much to you in the long term? It comes across as petty and cheap.
As for the motel owner offering reduced rates to Fall/Winter steelhead anglers...that is his "Off Season" when his motel is ordinarily empty and thus it makes economic sense to offer reduced rates to fill otherwise empty rates. It does not make sense to offer the same reductions during Spring/Summer when those same rooms are in high demand and he/she is fully booked for the season.
Same logic here...why would a Newfoundland Outfitter opt to give you a reduced rate hunt, during the actual hunting season, when most are booked years in advance and at full asking price?
Cancellation hunts are different. Many outfitters will put your name on a list in case another hunter cancels at the last minute. They foreit their deposit and this will allow outfitters to offer reduced rates to hunters who can drop everything at the last minute to fly/drive to Newfoundland for a last-minute hunt. That might be an option for you.
Right now gas is selling for 1.15/L in some areas! In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, it hit over $1.50/L. There is 13% HST tax charged on everything, even some groceries and electricity. Operating a small business myself, (I'm not an outfitter!) I know all too well just how much it costs in taxes and deductions to provide employment opportunities. Then you also have to factor in Worker's Compensation fees, that are determined based on the industry code of the work involved and your annual payroll. For business involved in the more "dangerous" industries with larger payrolls, Worker's Comp payments can easily run into the thousands!
Then you have annual maintenance costs and upkeep on your properties. Float plane/helicopter leases/rental costs or upkeep if you own your own aircraft. Mechanic/hanger fees, parts, POL costs. ATVs and maintenance. Support personnel costs...guys who cook, make the beds, sweep the lodge, set-up spike camps (wall tents, plywood shacks), skinners, trophy care/taxidermy and roustabouts. It takes a lot of people and money to keep even a half dozen hunters in the field properly fed and cared for. Most outfitters on the Rock will also offer FREE upland hunting and provide shotguns/dogs if you tag out early and the game is in season.
If you don't like the outfitter's price, shop around! If every single Newfoundland outfitter offering Moose hunts is "too expensive" for a welder, (who should be earning anywhere from $25-$70 bucks/hr depending on qualifications/certification) then I really suggest you try one on the mainland or up north. How about Jim Shockey and an Alaska-Yukon Moose hunt in the Yukon? Will only run you around $12,000.00-$13,000.00 not including airfare and extras! Definitely a bargain!
Sorry, don't mean to crap all over you, but the way you've worded your posts and and this sense of "entitlement" you seem to have, despite making oodles of money as a welder, (along with your other responses) just bug the $hit out of me!
Why try and nickel and dime some small business owner when that $200 "discount" you're trying to wrangle really doesn't mean all that much to you in the long term? It comes across as petty and cheap.As for the motel owner offering reduced rates to Fall/Winter steelhead anglers...that is his "Off Season" when his motel is ordinarily empty and thus it makes economic sense to offer reduced rates to fill otherwise empty rates. It does not make sense to offer the same reductions during Spring/Summer when those same rooms are in high demand and he/she is fully booked for the season.
Same logic here...why would a Newfoundland Outfitter opt to give you a reduced rate hunt, during the actual hunting season, when most are booked years in advance and at full asking price?
Cancellation hunts are different. Many outfitters will put your name on a list in case another hunter cancels at the last minute. They foreit their deposit and this will allow outfitters to offer reduced rates to hunters who can drop everything at the last minute to fly/drive to Newfoundland for a last-minute hunt. That might be an option for you.
I love youth.
When the age gets up so does the wisedom.
Taking a small cut in profit but keeping your operation going beats starting over anyday.
However that is not what Harvard and all the book people teach.
Love the teachers all therory and no actual getting hands dirty.
Dont ever become farmers for each wise person here would be in the center coloring.
When the age gets up so does the wisedom.
Taking a small cut in profit but keeping your operation going beats starting over anyday.
However that is not what Harvard and all the book people teach.
Love the teachers all therory and no actual getting hands dirty.
Dont ever become farmers for each wise person here would be in the center coloring.
Dont stop now man. Your making a world of sense. You and camp cook sound like you are out of diapers for some while. The one good thing that comes with the failing body of older age is a fully developed brain. So I guess this getting older crap aint all bad huh
Yeah whatever... the motel owner didn't offer anything we j*w'ed him down he had no intentions of changing his pricing until we told him we would be there supporting him at least 10 to 20 nights a year and if he didn't give us a better price we would go somewhere that would give it to us.
If he was full we went somewhere else and paid a higher price or made sure one of us had a camper for us to stay in the way we saw it is the owner made a sound economical decision to give a deal to customers that would give him repeat business.
I now travel a lot and stay in hotels all over BC & Alberta I never pay full price once I have stayed in a hotel more than once no matter what the season is if they do not drop the pricing to a better level I will not stay there again.
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Getting 10-30% off a motel room that costs under 100 dollars is a different beast than a $4000-$5000 guided hunt. I'm sure if you put a deposit down on multiple hunts in succeeding years, an Outfitter would consider offering reduced rates/package deal. However, many of the better Outfitters around, already have plenty of repeat customers who are quite happy to pay the asked for price....granted most of these individuals are more than "comfortable" and are typically European or American.
Camp Cook, you might want to rephrase your post, as I'm sure any number of Jewish CGN members would find it offensive.
Camp Cook, you might want to rephrase your post, as I'm sure any number of Jewish CGN members would find it offensive.
This would explain the increase of unsold tags in NFLD from zero most years to 2800 last year and expected to take an even bigger jump this year. Yep no need to satisfy anything more than the return rich not, the tag numbers sure reflect that huh
Bed, food,license,18 year old to go out and walk around with you. Dont differ on this one too much biys,cause I wuz dare, I knows.
Amd on the ferry ride back that was the typical sentiment
Would you provide a link to this figure of 2800? I haven't seen it in print anywhere here in Newfoundland. If there are unsold hunts I would hazard a guess they are due to the global recession we're all dealing with at present, along with the decline in the Woodland Caribou population. A lot of foreign hunters liked to book multi-species hunts and came for both the Caribou and Moose and often our large Black Bears too as a package hunt. With less Caribou tags available, that may have caused some sport hunters to reconsider, or wait for the following year when both would be available to them.
However, getting back to the actual costs incurred by an Outfitter, they're the same no matter if he is getting paid $4000 for the hunt or a special "Laughingfool" rate. Any reduced rate will have to cut into his/her small profit margin. At a certain point, it makes more sense to not sell the hunt at cut-rate prices and to leave it unbooked.
I'll give you a for instance...this year, because of the global recession, the demand for fur is way down. People, even the rich, aren't buying as many fur coats as in years past. No demand, the price for fur goes down. Then the European Union (those hypocritical bastards that they are) recently instituted a partial ban on the import of Canadian seal pelts thanks to lobbying efforts of the animal rights crazies.
As a result, pelt prices went from well over $100.00 per pelt a couple of years ago, to $15.00 this year. When sealers factored in the cost of fuel, food, ammunition many found that it would actually cost them MORE to go hunt seals than they could hope to make. As a consequence, many, many boats stayed tied up and a bare fraction of the Total Allowable Catch as set out by DFO was actually harvested.
Getting back to the guided hunt...if the Outfitter knocked off $500 or $1000 from his/her regular price...he/she is still going to have to pay the same price for gasoline/Av Gas, electricity, wages for guides/cooks/camp helpers. The hunter and guide is still going to eat the same amount of groceries and he/she is going to have to spend the same amount of time and effort to ensure that the hunter enjoys himself and harvests their animal. When you factor in all the costs associated with offering guided hunts compared to the asking price...the profit margins really aren't that generous. Prices for gasoline, Av Gas, diesel, etc...fluctuate from week to week in Newfoundland and typically cost 20-40 cents more per L here than say surburban Ontario at any given time. As such, regretable as it may be, some Outfitters will find that it makes more business sense to not sell such a hunt at a cut rate, but hope to ride out the tough year and count on an improved economic climate for the following season.
Yet, despite these realities, your position is that because you are who you are, you deserve a discount, and if you don't get it, essentially the Outfitter is a stupid Newfie and by association so are the rest of us "by's?" That about the gist of it?
hmmm you come after me for making an unintentional racial comment and I haven't seen anyone else in this thread refer to anyone like you just did I'm thinking you should change the wording before your fellow Islanders get upset with you...
Go easy by, yu'll work yourself into a proper lather. Look 4 was about as good as it got. 5-6 being the norm. I like a moose but you all just aint worth it. Lets say you go middle at 5 G's. You add 1500 to that for travel,ferry,Oh you's likes yer tips to bys. You starting to kick at an african safari (plains game only of course) but even still do you think that maybe the fact that your approaching african prices,we're in a recession,etc etc just might, I say just might be part of the reason the C.O. tells my guide at the restaurant that they could'nt move 2800 tags. Now IF I got to say the number again someone may get the impression your a little _ _ _ _.
hmmm you come after me for making an unintentional racial comment and I haven't seen anyone else in this thread refer to anyone like you just did I'm thinking you should change the wording before your fellow Islanders get upset with you...
Can't see it happening. X-man happens to know what he's talking about.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
If you had such an awful hunt, why the f*** are you looking to return?
I don't get it
I guess, the jury is out on them, until we meet! But I am looking forward to some day someone changing my mind!
If you had such an awful hunt, why the f*** are you looking to return?
I don't get it
where did I say awful?
How eloquently put...thank you for contributing!!
Now go play in traffic.
So, I have had bad dealings with dis-honest people (lying outfitters), And I am the #### that should go play in traffic??
Your the tool that should be playing blindfolded frogger!
