package 'deals'

Ruffed Grouse

Ruffed Grouse

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Hi nutz,

I've been wondering why better package deals don't seem to exist.

I know seven people, all friends (or wife), plus me, who have not come from hunting families and who gotten into hunting in their 20s or later. I think every new hunter, when buying a new rifle, looks at the package deals like the Savage deal or (at the time for me) the Remington 710 deal. But in both cases, closer inspection reveals them not to be worth it. I wonder why better packages are not put together? A first hunting rifle is a big investment and there is a lot of conflicting advice out there.

I played with some options and came up with the following: Stevens 200, Hogue dual pillar stock (presumably now available for center feed?), rifle basix trigger, Bushnell 3200 scope + decent rings, bases, recoil pad and sling. Now I'm no businessman, but bear with me a bit. This would require little labour to put together, and especially with the recently declining American dollar taken into account, it might be offered for $1000 (Canadian), tax included, based more or less on just adding up the retail prices of each component. In my estimation this is probably a little cheaper than just buying a 700 sps, putting a similar scope, sling etc on it, and arguably a better overall deal.

This sort of thing must be a good deal for a business? Are things like this out there? I don't think such a package would leave much to be desired for a starter. I suspect that most gunnutz probably guide newbie friends away from package deals, but wouldn't something like this be very different? I, for one would have guided more than one friend to such a package. Actually, I think that a lot of more experienced shooter's would also go for such a package for some purposes, especially with the potential to easily upgrade the barrel. Are there legal/liability implications for small businesses selling packages with after-market modifications?

RG

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Wheatherby has put together one with a Bushnell elite 3200 that is a nice package for a little over 800, They are out there just alot of dealers see more profit if it is sold separate.
 
Package deals limit options. Today there are so many options available that the customer can choose exactly what he wants, rather than just wanting what the store sells. Also many of todays rifle buyers are more sophisticated than those of a generation ago. For that reason alone, they won't be as quick to spend money on a package that does not have the elements they want. So the rifle as good or as bad as it is sits on the shelf and is either sold at a loss or is split up and sold separately. Lets say you could get a specific version of the Remington M-700 in .270 with a 3-9X40 Leupold for a hundred bucks cheaper than buying the same outfit separately, would you buy it if: you didn't like the mounts, didn't like the reticle, had your heart set on a 3.5-10X, didn't like the stock, wanted a .280, or if you didn't like the barrel length or contour? Probably not. The bottom line is that packages don't increase sales.
 
I think that as you climb the quality/price ladder, the rungs get smaller. i.e. - the more money people spend, the less willing they are to settle for a predefined package.

Better just to offer a discount on whatever gun/scope/mount/sling/case package the client wants.
 
I think what grouse is getting at are those new to the sport, those that have expressed an interest in hunting or shooting and would like to get into the sport with a minimum cash outlay while exploring their newfound interest- possibly a teen high school student working part time flippin' burgers on weekends. I don't think he is referring to 'sophisticated' hunters/shooters like some on this site.

I agree Grouse- there should be some better packages offered out there. I know that there are a few dealers that do put together the odd package with an upgraded scope, rings etc. Phil at P&D comes to mind. Another in the Edmonton area that has advertised quality packages is the Shootist in St. Albert. Google Shootist, should be able to find it.
 
why be forcefed what is "right" for you? Its not hard to select a proper riflescope,rings, sling, and a rifle....
 
todbartell said:
why be forcefed what is "right" for you? Its not hard to select a proper riflescope,rings, sling, and a rifle....
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Agreed.

To me a package deal screams: "We can't sell this junk separately to someone with a clue so lets make them more attractive to a greenhorn by putting them together in a PACKAGE".
 
I don't think that it would fly due to the fact that those who want to spend a little more money will want to pick and choose the components that they attach to the rifle. The package deals seem to attract two types; those tyhat are so new to the sport, that don't yet know what they want, and those that don't pay any attention as to the equipment that they use due to time consraints or simply not caring.
Mike
 
todbartell said:
why be forcefed what is "right" for you? Its not hard to select a proper riflescope,rings, sling, and a rifle....
Click to expand...
Agreed! What sells a package is price, price and only price! Anyone that wants to spend a little more cash can essentially build their own package and get the options they want.
 
I don't think selling package guns is forcefeeding anyone. If you don't wish to buy a package, don't. Spend all you want and buy and assemble your own 'high end' package. Who does it hurt to have a few low end and mid level packages on the shelf for those that wish to purchase them ? If they didn't sell worth a crap, why have companies like Savage had them available for decades?? (queue Savage slagging here)

Who are we as gun owners to decide on what options should be available to a potential buyer or future enthusiast? Shouldn't we be promoting choice, not just of high end stuff but at all levels of quality? If a basic Savage combo gets one person involved in the sport, how does this hurt? The survival of our species, gun nuts, depends on newcomers to the hobby. :confused:

Do we wish our sport to become a society of elitists, where only those with expensive custom European rifles and optics need apply? CHOICES...
 
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I don't buy junk anymore like when I was younger . I buy quality now . It may cost you more in the beginning but in the end it will cost you less . When you finally get it the way you want it , look in the "parts" box and you will see that cheap junk from the beginning !
Save a bit and get what you really want the first time . It will last you a lifetime if you look after it .
Just my 2 cents :D
 
bassman said:
I don't think selling package guns is forcefeeding anyone. If you don't wish to buy a package, don't. Spend all you want and buy and assemble your own 'high end' package. Who does it hurt to have a few low end and mid level packages on the shelf for those that wish to purchase them ? If they didn't sell worth a crap, why have companies like Savage had them available for decades?? (queue Savage slagging here)

Who are we as gun owners to decide on what options should be available to a potential buyer or future enthusiast? Shouldn't we be promoting choice, not just of high end stuff but at all levels of quality? If a basic Savage combo gets one person involved in the sport, how does this hurt? The survival of our species, gun nuts, depends on newcomers to the hobby. :confused:

Do we wish our sport to become a society of elitists, where only those with expensive custom European rifles and optics need apply? CHOICES...
Click to expand...

I agree, my other hobby of Remote control anything, has gone through this too. In the 70's and 80's rc was totally elitist and not one RTR(ready to run) kit for sale. Then Traxxas came up with the idea of RTR and marketed in the 90'. well the industry is thriving now, with RTR everything available as well as parts to bluid your own.

Now i know having options is great as i love to modify things too, but with out the RTR package to intice new people that normallly would have passed because of the complexity of the sport. Also how does one learn without shooting on some basic platforms? Learning what one likes and dislikes to make the right choices when putting together their custom firearm.
 
Ken,

I didn't know about that package. That seems a good step up (not for me on aesthetics, but interesting to know the concept is out there), as I think many experienced shooters would consider that the most economical 'decent' scope (why I used it in my example).

bassman,

I think you picked up on what I was thinking better than what I did. I certainly wasn't intending to push my idea of a package. What I'm surprised by is that there is not a bigger diversity of packages.

Boomer and others,

Sure - viva la difference! But maybe your Dads put together or handed you down your first few guns? Otherwise it is quite intimidating. I suspect there is room for a somewhat higher quality package or two to become known as choices with which you can't go wrong.

Another way to think of it is to compare it to shotguns. There are plenty of great options out there, but nobody would go wrong suggesting a newbie buys an 870. It is standard advice (I took it myself and 4 friends have taken it too). But with rifles typically needing scopes, packages do make some sense in some cases, but there seemed to me to be none out there that that I'd recommend to a friend.

RG

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If there were sufficient demands for higher end package deals, the big manufactuer's would already be offering them. Instead, they're offering an inexpensive package to new shooters who will probably remain "one-gun" hunters for the conceivable futuer. For more educated/discerning shooters, they probably already know what they want/don't want and aren't interested is settling for the "best" the gun makers can offer at a set price point.
 
Ruffed Grouse said:
Boomer and others,

Sure - viva la difference! But maybe your Dads put together or handed you down your first few guns? Otherwise it is quite intimidating. I suspect there is room for a somewhat higher quality package or two to become known as choices with which you can't go wrong.

Another way to think of it is to compare it to shotguns. There are plenty of great options out there, but nobody would go wrong suggesting a newbie buys an 870. It is standard advice (I took it myself and 4 friends have taken it too). But with rifles typically needing scopes, packages do make some sense in some cases, but there seemed to me to be none out there that that I'd recommend to a friend.

RG

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Click to expand...

I agree with you, but what I was trying to get at is that a good dealer will put together a package for you, based on your needs, and at a discount.
 
I think could sell a great pile of Remington 7600's ( yes, the venerable
"Menonite Machine Gun" ) in either .260 Rem or .35 Whelen ( both actually) with 1-4 or 2-7 Leupold VX-II's on them ..... last I heard though, was that Remington wanted at least a guaranteed order for 500 minimum in each caliber.
 
Most package deals exist to get new shooters off on the right foot, which they do just fine. The scopes are cheap, but they'll work okay. The guns are no option, low frills units that'll shoot straight and take a beating. IMO they're perfect. No confusion about what kind of scope mounts to buy or which sling to buy or do I need swivels or how do I bore sight my rifle or anything, just take it out of the box, tighten down all the screws to be sure, then go shoot it.

I did see, however, a beautiful "package" before, Model 70 Sporter in .30-06 with a Leupold 2.5-8 VXIII in Leupold bases and rings. Leather sling, gloss bluing, nice wood. Slick package, but it was a "demo" model, if you could call it that.
 
mikeyb said:
Most package deals exist to get new shooters off on the right foot, which they do just fine. The scopes are cheap, but they'll work okay. The guns are no option, low frills units that'll shoot straight and take a beating. IMO they're perfect. No confusion about what kind of scope mounts to buy or which sling to buy or do I need swivels or how do I bore sight my rifle or anything, just take it out of the box, tighten down all the screws to be sure, then go shoot it.

I did see, however, a beautiful "package" before, Model 70 Sporter in .30-06 with a Leupold 2.5-8 VXIII in Leupold bases and rings. Leather sling, gloss bluing, nice wood. Slick package, but it was a "demo" model, if you could call it that.
Click to expand...

X2 - A package is a great way to start shooting, then when you're ready for a more expensive, higher-end rifle, at least you have an idea of how to shoot and what you like to shoot.

It's like when you first learn to drive. Most kids will either get a cheap, second hand beater or an inexpensive new car. You don't usually go out and buy a $100000.00 car right off the bat.
 
Package deals....

If you are on a very strict budget then maybe something like a Savage package deal [rifle with mounted scope] is just the ticket. Usually, though the scopes are at the lower end of the cost/quality scale. So, if the budget allows I'd suggest getting the rifle only and adding a nicer scope to go with it.

A new Savage rifle with something like a Bushnell 3200 3-9x40mm would be a nice combo, for example.

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
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