Remington MSR Sniper Platform
- Thread starter Mystic Precision
- Start date
Long Range Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Athabasca Alberta aka God's Country
Hmmmmmmmm. Interesting rifle, but I think I would stick with a bolt gun in a Mcmillan A4/A5 stock, caliber specific to the role it was to play. This thing just doesn't look field friendly in my opinion.
A good rifle set into a Mcmillan can be abused all day and still shoot sub MOA. I think if you had to butt stroke some poor bugger with that rifle you'd be shooting a precision pistol.
A good rifle set into a Mcmillan can be abused all day and still shoot sub MOA. I think if you had to butt stroke some poor bugger with that rifle you'd be shooting a precision pistol.
I have choosed the regular forearm but JP offer the round one to mount what ever you whant where ever you need... i just don't need it... plus, it fold on the left side, no alu on my cheek or right hand.
Mcmillan is a awesome quality stock, i had hard time to choose between a A5 and this MOR-07, maybe i wanted to try some thing different... just can't understand why this or other folding stock may be less strong ?? anyway, i'am very satisfied of it, if it change, i will come back to the A5 for sure
Mcmillan is a awesome quality stock, i had hard time to choose between a A5 and this MOR-07, maybe i wanted to try some thing different... just can't understand why this or other folding stock may be less strong ?? anyway, i'am very satisfied of it, if it change, i will come back to the A5 for sure
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
sendero, that is a great looking stock. See it can fold to the left and will not give you any nose problems - lies flat too for easy packing and carry. No open areas in the buttstock to hook or grab vegetation. Recessed adjustments less likely to be moved (prefer no knobs and just use shims and lock it all in place). Rifle fully functional with stock folded. Add a few pic rails if really needed. I bet it weighs in around 12lbs as it sits AND it could be made lighter.
Problem solved....so let's reinvent the wheel and engineer in problems.
Max Owner, modularity is now the buzz word in all small arm projects I have seen. The idea is really about saving money. The idea of having one action/stock/platform serve the role of various missions is an interesting concept but I don't see the point.
This isn't golf. If you need a cannon, bring one and I bet the cannon will be effective on lesser/closer targets too. Bring the biggest stick to the fight and resolve ANY mission possibility - THAT saves money. making it lighter so someone can actually hoof it around would be great too.
I put forth the idea of using uppers for the M4 so that you can have a large cartridge for LR work and the reg auto 223 for transit work/defense. That would be modular, light, compact and dirt cheap. so far, no one is jumping on that bandwagon. I guess the dirt cheap part is turning manf. off. Best for everyone to carry around TWO rifles.
Of course with chamber interchange, you will need to change the mags. The Rem chassis will demand a goofy mag to adapt to that mag well. That sounds pricey, complicated and a great place to have problems. Also, I am still very curious on how they intend to make the bolt head and barrel removable. What sorts of tools needed? How complicated?
The only modular concept that works is long pic rails and mounting optics/accessories. Need a light, add a light. Change an optic. Slap on a laser designator. BUT leave the firearm alone.
Be interesting to see what comes out of these trials...
Jerry
LRC, I bet Rem spent lots of time energy and engineering to design a folder with half the material missing to fit over a bolt knob to render the rifle inoperable YET be strong enough to handle close encounters. Some high tech space alloy with supersized strength that weighs like a boat anchor.
Time well spent.
Problem solved....so let's reinvent the wheel and engineer in problems.
Max Owner, modularity is now the buzz word in all small arm projects I have seen. The idea is really about saving money. The idea of having one action/stock/platform serve the role of various missions is an interesting concept but I don't see the point.
This isn't golf. If you need a cannon, bring one and I bet the cannon will be effective on lesser/closer targets too. Bring the biggest stick to the fight and resolve ANY mission possibility - THAT saves money. making it lighter so someone can actually hoof it around would be great too.
I put forth the idea of using uppers for the M4 so that you can have a large cartridge for LR work and the reg auto 223 for transit work/defense. That would be modular, light, compact and dirt cheap. so far, no one is jumping on that bandwagon. I guess the dirt cheap part is turning manf. off. Best for everyone to carry around TWO rifles.
Of course with chamber interchange, you will need to change the mags. The Rem chassis will demand a goofy mag to adapt to that mag well. That sounds pricey, complicated and a great place to have problems. Also, I am still very curious on how they intend to make the bolt head and barrel removable. What sorts of tools needed? How complicated?
The only modular concept that works is long pic rails and mounting optics/accessories. Need a light, add a light. Change an optic. Slap on a laser designator. BUT leave the firearm alone.
Be interesting to see what comes out of these trials...
Jerry
LRC, I bet Rem spent lots of time energy and engineering to design a folder with half the material missing to fit over a bolt knob to render the rifle inoperable YET be strong enough to handle close encounters. Some high tech space alloy with supersized strength that weighs like a boat anchor.
Time well spent.
I can't even begin to count the delays there have been with PSR. 6 years ago (is it really that long) Steve and I baked in the Arizona sun at Yuma shooting over the Doppler when this program was in it's infancy. At that time I believe the RFP was declared "imminent." Funny...
Currently they are seeking verified accuracy data and asking vendors to provide a firing fixture with their bids. Also the day sight is to be tendered separately now. SHOT will bring a new batch or rumors without a doubt in respect to this program.
The MSR represents a big investment by green and I am sure they will present a very strong bid when and if there is ever the opportunity.
Currently they are seeking verified accuracy data and asking vendors to provide a firing fixture with their bids. Also the day sight is to be tendered separately now. SHOT will bring a new batch or rumors without a doubt in respect to this program.
The MSR represents a big investment by green and I am sure they will present a very strong bid when and if there is ever the opportunity.
knowing my luck it will either never make it to Canada, or it will be out of my price range...
LongBomber
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fernie, bc
I am not a tactical shooter, but an avid hunter, several concepts would seem to transfer between them. Why make a folding stock that blocks the bolt? Why not be able to use the rifle with the stock folded? Might need it in a emergency. Why make a stock with a bunch of holes to catch on things if you are on a long crawl? When crawling how much crap will get stuck in the vents on the picatinny rails and the space between the stock and check piece? What happens to your POI if something gets wedged between the rail and barrel?
So they used Savages bolt head style to change the bolt and a threaded receiver and a nut to swap barrels. Could have done that with a 400 dollar Stevens, only the threads are on the barrel...
18 pounds? My Savage LRPV weighs 11 pounds.
Interesting rifle, and it looks cool, but I like the PGW stock that rsp1761 linked to.
So they used Savages bolt head style to change the bolt and a threaded receiver and a nut to swap barrels. Could have done that with a 400 dollar Stevens, only the threads are on the barrel...
18 pounds? My Savage LRPV weighs 11 pounds.
Interesting rifle, and it looks cool, but I like the PGW stock that rsp1761 linked to.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
LB, many great points.
To add, they say this rifle never has to leave the 'field' to get all the possible mods done.
BUT you need various very specific tools to work on the rifle - Allen wrenches, likely Torx wrenches, Barrel nut wrench. Loose a tool, you aren't getting very far.
Do you really want to be saddled by a tool box full of iron to work on your rifle?
I always thought designers of military firearms wanted the soldier to be able to maintain the rifle using little or no tools (just look the MASADA video right next to the MSR one). A flat head screw driver or the tip of a bullet. Something simple, readily accessible/fabricated ANYWHERE on this planet.
I just don't see alot of allen and torx or gun specific barrel nut wrenches in the middle of a desert or jungle.
The rifle was supposed to have been collaborated with 'operators' for 'operators'. I wonder if these are the same guys that need a GPS, Smart Phone, Scientific calculator and 2lbs of spare batteries to operate in the field.
Whatever happened to simplify??????
By the time these trials are finished and millions of dollars are spent, they might end up with platform that moves ever closer to the DRAGUNOV of the 60's.
Doubt it....
Jerry
To add, they say this rifle never has to leave the 'field' to get all the possible mods done.
BUT you need various very specific tools to work on the rifle - Allen wrenches, likely Torx wrenches, Barrel nut wrench. Loose a tool, you aren't getting very far.
Do you really want to be saddled by a tool box full of iron to work on your rifle?
I always thought designers of military firearms wanted the soldier to be able to maintain the rifle using little or no tools (just look the MASADA video right next to the MSR one). A flat head screw driver or the tip of a bullet. Something simple, readily accessible/fabricated ANYWHERE on this planet.
I just don't see alot of allen and torx or gun specific barrel nut wrenches in the middle of a desert or jungle.
The rifle was supposed to have been collaborated with 'operators' for 'operators'. I wonder if these are the same guys that need a GPS, Smart Phone, Scientific calculator and 2lbs of spare batteries to operate in the field.
Whatever happened to simplify??????
By the time these trials are finished and millions of dollars are spent, they might end up with platform that moves ever closer to the DRAGUNOV of the 60's.
Doubt it....
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Max, it kind of makes sense to me but then I have never put on camo for work.
I think these companies (Rem and Savage) have caught the tacticool bug from the civi market and are blinging their rifles, adding cost, complexity and making a WORSE product.
Military grade rifles from MOST countries over the last couple hundred years work towards simple, effective, easy to maintain/repair and just as important - produce.
Sure designs and applications have changed but the base remains the same. Make it survive in the field in the hands of someone a wee bit stressed working in less then sterile conditions with likely a few rocks to use as tools.
Both this Rem and the new BAS Savage are really a byproduct of the Limo Army. Why worry about weight or complexity when you just drive up to your area of operation? Kind of a like a Drive Thru War. Gotta look good for the other 'gangstars'.
Who cares if you need a basket full of tools when you have boxes in the back of the bus? And FED Ex overnights.....
Maybe someone will design a product that needs an air powered impact wrench to get it just so.....then the air ride in the HumVee isn't just for showing off to your friends at the local bombed out parking lot.
Like 10" AR's, someone is seriously missing the point!
As far as I know, most soldiers do not bring changes of clothing for the various events they may encounter during their work day so why have so many hand twist adjustments.
The user should know their shape and what fits them - They do practise with the rifle don't they? And I didn't think sniper rifles were communal devices??? - make it fit a 5'4" in an evening dress AND a 6'4" in body armour and make it snappy.
Fixed adjustments using SOLID spacers ala TRG, AI Nothing to snag, nothing to loosen, nothing to fail.
A rifle that can be operated in any configuration it is stored ala AI folding stock or maybe even consider the bizarre concept of a bullpup (like every other country) and not need a folding stock to begin with (cause hinges don't break) AND gain a ballistic edge in performance (28" pipe in the same footprint as a 20").
At least they don't require the single shell loading of the mag any more....such progress.
It is a pity that the US planners and manf companies don't spend much time with history otherwise, they would notice that one of the worlds most effective sniper rifles is also one of the worlds simplest rifles and half the weight they impose on our soldiers.
Just ask the Germans....
Jerry
I think these companies (Rem and Savage) have caught the tacticool bug from the civi market and are blinging their rifles, adding cost, complexity and making a WORSE product.
Military grade rifles from MOST countries over the last couple hundred years work towards simple, effective, easy to maintain/repair and just as important - produce.
Sure designs and applications have changed but the base remains the same. Make it survive in the field in the hands of someone a wee bit stressed working in less then sterile conditions with likely a few rocks to use as tools.
Both this Rem and the new BAS Savage are really a byproduct of the Limo Army. Why worry about weight or complexity when you just drive up to your area of operation? Kind of a like a Drive Thru War. Gotta look good for the other 'gangstars'.
Who cares if you need a basket full of tools when you have boxes in the back of the bus? And FED Ex overnights.....
Maybe someone will design a product that needs an air powered impact wrench to get it just so.....then the air ride in the HumVee isn't just for showing off to your friends at the local bombed out parking lot.
Like 10" AR's, someone is seriously missing the point!
As far as I know, most soldiers do not bring changes of clothing for the various events they may encounter during their work day so why have so many hand twist adjustments.
The user should know their shape and what fits them - They do practise with the rifle don't they? And I didn't think sniper rifles were communal devices??? - make it fit a 5'4" in an evening dress AND a 6'4" in body armour and make it snappy.
Fixed adjustments using SOLID spacers ala TRG, AI Nothing to snag, nothing to loosen, nothing to fail.
A rifle that can be operated in any configuration it is stored ala AI folding stock or maybe even consider the bizarre concept of a bullpup (like every other country) and not need a folding stock to begin with (cause hinges don't break) AND gain a ballistic edge in performance (28" pipe in the same footprint as a 20").
At least they don't require the single shell loading of the mag any more....such progress.
It is a pity that the US planners and manf companies don't spend much time with history otherwise, they would notice that one of the worlds most effective sniper rifles is also one of the worlds simplest rifles and half the weight they impose on our soldiers.
Just ask the Germans....
Jerry
Looks to have far too many parts and that stock folding to the right side is a crazy idea on a military rifle as it leaves you holding a club.
This looks like a much better option for the US Army competition:
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/compact.html
P
This looks like a much better option for the US Army competition:
http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/compact.html
P
I wondered about that at first as well, but their design has some advantages. For example, carrying the rifle folded. There is only one side with a bump on it to dig into you.
I don't understand the heavy 308s either. Bigger cals maybe, though the TRG42 is still relatively light weight. Lugging ~20 lbs of rifle does not seem like something conductive of agility.
I believe the C9 LMG is a tad over 20lbs when loaded. it wasn't that awkward, and certainly didn't slow me down on obstacle courses.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
I watched the video again and saw something that raised another question.
The barrel install is similar to the AR with a shouldered barrel and an action with thread and a nut. However, the AR headspaces off the barrel NOT the action. Looks like this rifles has the same type of front locking bolt ( maybe I am wrong) which locks up against the receiver.
I wonder how Rem is going to keep tolerances tight enough so a mix/match of parts doesn't lead to out of spec headspace?
Interesting.
Jerry
The barrel install is similar to the AR with a shouldered barrel and an action with thread and a nut. However, the AR headspaces off the barrel NOT the action. Looks like this rifles has the same type of front locking bolt ( maybe I am wrong) which locks up against the receiver.
I wonder how Rem is going to keep tolerances tight enough so a mix/match of parts doesn't lead to out of spec headspace?
Interesting.
Jerry
Every pound has to slow you down. If they are needed, take them. If not, ditch them and go for the agility it buys. I am coming at this from a hunting background though. The problem for me is never getting the rifle to the shot, it is getting the rifle home with the meat after the shot.
what stock is that?
I have choosed the regular forearm but JP offer the round one to mount what ever you whant where ever you need... i just don't need it... plus, it fold on the left side, no alu on my cheek or right hand.
Mcmillan is a awesome quality stock, i had hard time to choose between a A5 and this MOR-07, maybe i wanted to try some thing different... just can't understand why this or other folding stock may be less strong ?? anyway, i'am very satisfied of it, if it change, i will come back to the A5 for sure
Jamie said:
This is the MOR-07 from JP Enterprise, they are avail for all the 700 footprint, S/A, it seem that soon, they will be available for short and long on remmy AND savage.... My project is NOT finished yet so i have not posted other pic yet !!!
Sendero
