Long Range Hunting - see Page 16 for Riflechair addition
- Thread starter Riflechair
- Start date
Terrain also has a lot to do with it. Shooting open prairie or farmland and hunting boreal forest are two different things.
I can appreciate the sentiment of the rant, but I think it was better said when it was advised to know your limits and shoot within them.
I can appreciate the sentiment of the rant, but I think it was better said when it was advised to know your limits and shoot within them.
to each his own!
i support most of what people are saying, that you should be ethical and know your limitiations..For one thinng, a 100 yard offhand shot is just as hard for me as a 3 or 4 hundred yard shot with my harris. So whoes boneheaded idea is it not to shoot any further than you can accurately offhand? I think one of the problems with hunting these days is the demograhpics. The percentage of cranky old men looking for something to complain about is growing higher and higher all the time! If bulls**ting about a five hundred yard shots every once and while isnt as much a part of hunting as a 25 pound fish turning into a 40 pounder i will give away my guns right now. If someone wants to hunt from a blind why should they have to learn to spot and stalk? Give me a break with all these stupid ideas! I find i get the most out of spending my time away from roads and vehicles. However, if i want to spend a day driving and exploring new areas does that make me one of those guys? We do need to be teaching new hunters allmost all the things said above. We should try to change some peoples behaviour in the woods.. The only way to do that is to be a positive influence when you can. I find to many guys at my local range are the same. Old and grumpy with no time for anyone who doesnt fit into their limited perspective of how you can enjoy your time in the wilderness. I say to each their own, as long as they try to be responsible and promote ethical hunting as best they can in their own way.
i support most of what people are saying, that you should be ethical and know your limitiations..For one thinng, a 100 yard offhand shot is just as hard for me as a 3 or 4 hundred yard shot with my harris. So whoes boneheaded idea is it not to shoot any further than you can accurately offhand? I think one of the problems with hunting these days is the demograhpics. The percentage of cranky old men looking for something to complain about is growing higher and higher all the time! If bulls**ting about a five hundred yard shots every once and while isnt as much a part of hunting as a 25 pound fish turning into a 40 pounder i will give away my guns right now. If someone wants to hunt from a blind why should they have to learn to spot and stalk? Give me a break with all these stupid ideas! I find i get the most out of spending my time away from roads and vehicles. However, if i want to spend a day driving and exploring new areas does that make me one of those guys? We do need to be teaching new hunters allmost all the things said above. We should try to change some peoples behaviour in the woods.. The only way to do that is to be a positive influence when you can. I find to many guys at my local range are the same. Old and grumpy with no time for anyone who doesnt fit into their limited perspective of how you can enjoy your time in the wilderness. I say to each their own, as long as they try to be responsible and promote ethical hunting as best they can in their own way.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
These threads amuse me. They always boil down to "You shouldn't do X because I can't do it". There are some people, few people, who are skilled and disciplined enough to do it. Those people don't take foolish chances. They have the skill and they use it. There are a lot more that have no business taking shots at extended ranges but just because those people exist doesn't mean that everyone should be constrained by there rules. If the world operated like for everything that none of us would be allowed to have more than 50 horsepower in our car or ride anything more powerful than a moped.
Bottom line: No matter what it is you do, do it right or don't do it at all. If you can't do something, don't try it, and don't whine that other people can just to make yoursel ffeel better.
Bottom line: No matter what it is you do, do it right or don't do it at all. If you can't do something, don't try it, and don't whine that other people can just to make yoursel ffeel better.
I'm sitting on a fence here.
On one hand, long range shooting is not that hard to achieve given the right equipment. 20 years ago, during the military service, I was shooting, say, targets anywhere between 300 and 1000m with a 4x fixed magnification scope. Of course, the scope had range estimating features and some kind of mil-dot bullet drop/wind compensation marks. It took a lot of shooting but in the end it was a given. Mind you, military shooting is not hunting.
On the other hand, nowadays there are tons of restrictions. Talking about BC, around the GVRD area, there are few places one could legally do target shooting in the bush. What alternatives do we have then? Long range ranges? Do they help? Do they count? How does one assesses his/her long range shooting skills?
On one hand, long range shooting is not that hard to achieve given the right equipment. 20 years ago, during the military service, I was shooting, say, targets anywhere between 300 and 1000m with a 4x fixed magnification scope. Of course, the scope had range estimating features and some kind of mil-dot bullet drop/wind compensation marks. It took a lot of shooting but in the end it was a given. Mind you, military shooting is not hunting.
On the other hand, nowadays there are tons of restrictions. Talking about BC, around the GVRD area, there are few places one could legally do target shooting in the bush. What alternatives do we have then? Long range ranges? Do they help? Do they count? How does one assesses his/her long range shooting skills?
In the GVRD area you have this large wet thing west of you. Floaters make great targets. Works out to where the earth curves. - dan
Who determines what "long range is"? I only hunt big game with a bow, so anything over 25 yards is long range to me.
Perhaps you can rewrite some laws for us so we can all do exactly what you want us to?
If you think "well within 200 meters" is "actually walk and stalk" then you have no idea of what hunting actually is. Try 25 yards and under for a while, then tell me what you think of long range hunting.
I think those successful long range hunters have discipline, and I would also bet that they are not responsible for as many wounded animals walking away then short range hunters who simply can't shoot.
It is a new era with new technology, get in to it or step aside for the next generation of hunters. I will never be one, but I won't condemn them either.
Perhaps you can rewrite some laws for us so we can all do exactly what you want us to?
If you think "well within 200 meters" is "actually walk and stalk" then you have no idea of what hunting actually is. Try 25 yards and under for a while, then tell me what you think of long range hunting.
I think those successful long range hunters have discipline, and I would also bet that they are not responsible for as many wounded animals walking away then short range hunters who simply can't shoot.
It is a new era with new technology, get in to it or step aside for the next generation of hunters. I will never be one, but I won't condemn them either.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
It seems that the key here is to learn and understand your limitations. Not only your marksmanship limitations, but also your ability to determine range, and at very long range to calculate range with a very small margin of error. There are also an infinate number of variables that effect the bullet's flight as the range lengthens, and each must be calculated into the firing solution for the shot to be successful.
When we talk of taking big game at ranges that approach or exceed half a mile, we are looking at some very specialized equipment, and very specialized marksmanship ability. The more that stories circulate about that type of shooting the more likely the uninitiated are to assume they can do it too; that there might be more too it than adjusting your scope to hit 30" high at 100 has not occurred to them. After all, if I can shoot 1" groups at 100 then I can shoot 10" groups at 1000, right? Those of us who have shot paper at 1000 know it ain't necessarily so, but you have to do it to know that.
It takes a very good marksman to get a 300 yard kill shot on a live target, yet there are some who seem to suggest that there is nothing special about a 300 yard shot. It depends on the circumstances, but sometimes a shot should be passed up regardless of range. The temptation though is to take the shot regardless of range.
A few weeks back I was out on the sea ice and was able to put the sneak on a seal and get within what should have been easy shooting range, which I estimated at 150 yards. My rifle was sighted for 150 yards so all I had to do was hold dead on and press the trigger, right? Well, not so fast. The seal was broadside to me, when they are head on or straight away, there is a greater margin of error, because when broadside, unless he lifts himself up to look around there isn't much to shoot at. My position was solid, I was slung up, and I could have not have had a better hold from a bench rest; but I was in the pressure ice about 5' or 6' above the seal. Now, where is the bullet going to go? My horizontal wire completely covered the line of the seal's body. The seal was still and wasn't lifting his head so I had very little margin for vertical error. I put the cross hair dead on center, while my brain screamed, "Aim low!" But a few feet of elevation of the firing point can't make that much difference can it, and if I am slightly high and hit the spine so much the better. So I aimed dead on, pressed the trigger and the rifle boomed . . . the seal disappeared down the hole. This will happen sometimes if you don't get a CNS shot on a seal so I wanted to look for signs of a hit. I walked over to the hole and there was no hair or blood to be seen. Keeping an eye on my firing position and the hole I walked away from the hole and 30' away found my bullet strike in the ice. That bullet couldn't have been more than an inch over the seal, but a miss is just that - a miss.
Now most folks will concede that a 150 yard shot on a live target is within the ability of any competent marksman. Certainly that shot would have dumped any big game animal under similar circumstances, but if a competent marksman can make a mistake at 150 yards, does he have any business shooting at a big game animal beyond 300? For me 300 yards is far enough, and I have no problem passing up a 300 yard shot at unwounded game, but that is for me and it is not up to me to pass limitations on others. I only hope that those who make a conscious decision to shoot at a big game animal at long range do so with a full understanding of the problem, and that they do so recognizing what is an opportunity that offers a high probability for success but also recognize what circumstances offer a high probability for failure.
When we talk of taking big game at ranges that approach or exceed half a mile, we are looking at some very specialized equipment, and very specialized marksmanship ability. The more that stories circulate about that type of shooting the more likely the uninitiated are to assume they can do it too; that there might be more too it than adjusting your scope to hit 30" high at 100 has not occurred to them. After all, if I can shoot 1" groups at 100 then I can shoot 10" groups at 1000, right? Those of us who have shot paper at 1000 know it ain't necessarily so, but you have to do it to know that.
It takes a very good marksman to get a 300 yard kill shot on a live target, yet there are some who seem to suggest that there is nothing special about a 300 yard shot. It depends on the circumstances, but sometimes a shot should be passed up regardless of range. The temptation though is to take the shot regardless of range.
A few weeks back I was out on the sea ice and was able to put the sneak on a seal and get within what should have been easy shooting range, which I estimated at 150 yards. My rifle was sighted for 150 yards so all I had to do was hold dead on and press the trigger, right? Well, not so fast. The seal was broadside to me, when they are head on or straight away, there is a greater margin of error, because when broadside, unless he lifts himself up to look around there isn't much to shoot at. My position was solid, I was slung up, and I could have not have had a better hold from a bench rest; but I was in the pressure ice about 5' or 6' above the seal. Now, where is the bullet going to go? My horizontal wire completely covered the line of the seal's body. The seal was still and wasn't lifting his head so I had very little margin for vertical error. I put the cross hair dead on center, while my brain screamed, "Aim low!" But a few feet of elevation of the firing point can't make that much difference can it, and if I am slightly high and hit the spine so much the better. So I aimed dead on, pressed the trigger and the rifle boomed . . . the seal disappeared down the hole. This will happen sometimes if you don't get a CNS shot on a seal so I wanted to look for signs of a hit. I walked over to the hole and there was no hair or blood to be seen. Keeping an eye on my firing position and the hole I walked away from the hole and 30' away found my bullet strike in the ice. That bullet couldn't have been more than an inch over the seal, but a miss is just that - a miss.
Now most folks will concede that a 150 yard shot on a live target is within the ability of any competent marksman. Certainly that shot would have dumped any big game animal under similar circumstances, but if a competent marksman can make a mistake at 150 yards, does he have any business shooting at a big game animal beyond 300? For me 300 yards is far enough, and I have no problem passing up a 300 yard shot at unwounded game, but that is for me and it is not up to me to pass limitations on others. I only hope that those who make a conscious decision to shoot at a big game animal at long range do so with a full understanding of the problem, and that they do so recognizing what is an opportunity that offers a high probability for success but also recognize what circumstances offer a high probability for failure.
FWIW - There are many variables to consider while "on the hunt" most have been mentioned here and as the distance increases the variables start to have a greater impact on the shot. Trajectory & distance & wind direction + speed & enough "gun" to do the job & do you have a rest etc. aren't as critical at 100 yds vs say 400 yds, if you get my drift. Ethics,ability (not to be confused with one's perceived ability), respect for the game & fellow hunters are the essential ingredients in hunting, these virtues / lack of rest on the shoulders of hunters of all ages. --- John303.
You may as well say that the 30-30 is the perfect rifle ........ I defy you to hunt in certain plains areas - and if you think you are going to stalk to with 100 yds of the critter - well it is you who are dreaming.
The world is a varied and wonderful place. Long range shots can be and are made all the time. Practice, equipment, skill, all play a role.
Just like the true 40 pound fish - there are the true long range one shot kills.
If you cant shoot that well - dont do it. If you want to hunt with a bow - fill your boots.
If you want to sneak around in the forests and bush and shoot with a slug gun - great.
If you want to set up in your hide and await the perfect shot at some greater distance - do it.
I get my rant on when someone thinks that their way is the only way - nobody likes to get lectured on how lazy or stupid they are for doing something they enjoy.
In my view - a 150 yard shot with a rifle is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sneaking up to a deer standing in the bush and clobering it with a 45-70 does not interest me in the least. But to those that it does -- go for it and revel in it.
As for animals being wounded. Animals get wounded all the time. Hopefully you put them down before they suffer or escape. That is part of killing animals. The one shot one kill concept is generally a nice concept that may or may not translate into reality during a real hunt.
As for wounding animals at a distance -- I have found soooo many skeletons with an arrow in the midle of the bone pile -- again, not that I dislike bow hunting, its just that I wont do it.
To each their own own - be ethical and have fun
The world is a varied and wonderful place. Long range shots can be and are made all the time. Practice, equipment, skill, all play a role.
Just like the true 40 pound fish - there are the true long range one shot kills.
If you cant shoot that well - dont do it. If you want to hunt with a bow - fill your boots.
If you want to sneak around in the forests and bush and shoot with a slug gun - great.
If you want to set up in your hide and await the perfect shot at some greater distance - do it.
I get my rant on when someone thinks that their way is the only way - nobody likes to get lectured on how lazy or stupid they are for doing something they enjoy.
In my view - a 150 yard shot with a rifle is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sneaking up to a deer standing in the bush and clobering it with a 45-70 does not interest me in the least. But to those that it does -- go for it and revel in it.
As for animals being wounded. Animals get wounded all the time. Hopefully you put them down before they suffer or escape. That is part of killing animals. The one shot one kill concept is generally a nice concept that may or may not translate into reality during a real hunt.
As for wounding animals at a distance -- I have found soooo many skeletons with an arrow in the midle of the bone pile -- again, not that I dislike bow hunting, its just that I wont do it.
To each their own own - be ethical and have fun
Go over to longrangehunting.com. Read a few threads and realize you are WAY out of your league. Maybe even just read the articles section and realize you should set your own boundaries on how far you shoot. Maybe leave the big boys alone. I will not shoot anything over 250 yds. I will not tell other people how far to shoot.
Looks to me that lots of the people I'm referring to frequent these forums.
Good, I'm glad I struck a chord with you and brought this to your attention...
I think YOU and your 500 to 800 metre long range hunting distances are SO unethical it boggles the mind. I had no idea there were so many of you on these boards.
I'm disgusted.
Good, I'm glad I struck a chord with you and brought this to your attention...
I think YOU and your 500 to 800 metre long range hunting distances are SO unethical it boggles the mind. I had no idea there were so many of you on these boards.
I'm disgusted.
- Location
- Hillbilly shack in the boonies
One thing for sure, we should not condemn others , for their methods.
Treestand over apples, driving all day , or stalking the ridges or swamps,
Climbing high , or crossing rivers, and lakes. Using calls, scents, bait..
Have the gear that works, and have fun. Safety is King. and Friends for sure.
Treestand over apples, driving all day , or stalking the ridges or swamps,
Climbing high , or crossing rivers, and lakes. Using calls, scents, bait..
Have the gear that works, and have fun. Safety is King. and Friends for sure.
And I think YOU are pulling these phantom long range shots out of thin air or perhaps your derrière.
Oh and while you're at it here, please define for me "ethical".
Any "anti" statement on a gun board is going to strike a chord. Did you really think that if you come to a gun forum and call what people are doing unethical and illegal that they were going to just curl up?
It seems to me that they struck your chord, they are out hunting and you are in complaining about it, you are just another anti who can't mind his own business.
I am thinking there is an underlying reason you dislike capable hunters and this is your disturbed way of showing it.
Do not mis-understand for a minute, I am not against a log shot what so ever, in fact I prefer a longer shot if everything comes together. Being mostly a ground hog / jack rabbit / fox hunter, I would not hesitate, with the right equipment in my hands, to take a 300 to 400 yd. shot at a deer, thats just me and I am well aware of my / my equipment capabilities ( I would never attempt this with a 30-30 but some would). Wounding is repulsive but it happens, that's where ethics should step in, one should be aware of his /her / equipment "limitations". John303.
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I was going to say something similar.... "long range" is a relative (and very loose) term, and within reason should be applied to the rifle, the shooter, and the conditions, to determine if something is long range or not.
On another thread a guy was shooting rabbits with a .177 air rifle at 30 plus meters. That could be considered "long range hunting" as well, since it is a very long shot for the equipment being used, if you wanted to be sure of a one shot kill.
Or, you may have great faith in rifle X to shoot 350 meters in any conditions, but wouldn't even consider it using rifle Y, because you know it's limitiations, and yours.
Your argument is no less valid, though.
Other then using suppression fire and what is the difference?
Orienteering, stalking, concealment, observational skills, ranges estimation, reading the wind, shooting positions, marksmanship, etc...all these things com into play with both.
Also the type of "military scope" you mentioned is in use among hunters all over the place. I would think if more people took the timed to learn how to use them properly, then folks discover what a handy device they are.
If I am going to use a scope I get real disappointed to look through an expensive one in a gun shop only to see a simple cross hair. I want range reference marks, and bullet drop displayed thank you very much.
