Long Range Hunting - see Page 16 for Riflechair addition
- Thread starter Riflechair
- Start date
Who shall we choose to decide what is ethical or not, maybe we should have a committee............like CHRC, they seem to be doing a grand jo
rolleyes:So others, that don't have the same Ethics as you, should be publicly defamed be ause you don't agree with their methods. Remember here, that there will be those that think they are morally superior to you, and will want to decide what you do, using their own ethics.
Again, who is going to decide what is a "Sound ethical hunting distance"? My idea of what is sound and your idea of what is sound are probably very similar, but what if someone was to tell you, that you are unethical, and that only shots of 25 yards or less were the only sound ethical hunting distance.
This is the crux of the matter, right here. An individual makes a mistake, learns from the mistake, amends their hunting practices, and moves on. This is an Ethical Hunter
...now you seem to go back on your statements, such as:Ethics is a personal thing, forcing yours onto others, borders on criminal. If a hunter is hunting legally within his/her jurisdiction, that is all we should be concerned about. Of course we want every hunter to do the right thing, quick clean kills, but unfortunately that doesn't always happen. It is what happens after the shot, good or bad, that they should be judged on.
7.62mm, for all your eloquence and logic, I think are still wasting your time. Your words fall on deaf ears as far as the OP goes. It is like trying to convince any zealot their views are false. It's obvious to me the OP would rather go be a suicide bomber for his ethics than think and amend his outdated ideas. So it goes...
I will not shoot past 300 yards because I have never practiced enough past 300 yards. Unfortunately my belief is not the norm among local hunters. Just visit our sight in day at the rifle range. Example fella shows up with his 270 and Tasco 4-12 scope. Shoots 4 shoots gets a 3-4 inch group but its 3 inches high so he is good to 500 yards...
My feelings are the majority of guys on CGN are avid hunters/shooters and not the normal average guy. Most of us on this sight I am willing to bet shoot more than 10 rounds a year. Its the guy that doesn't and still thinks he can shoot an elk at 500 yards is the one that pisses me off. I don't feel its an ethical question on the range of the shot I believe its an ethical question in regards to hunters taking shots that are outside of there skill set because they are not ethical enough to let an animal walk.
Its unethical to take a shot when you are not capable or practiced to take such a shot IMO the actually range has nothing to do with it so long as shooter and gear are up to the task. That question can only be answered by each individual before they pull the trigger. If in doubt do the ethical thing and watch it walk...
My feelings are the majority of guys on CGN are avid hunters/shooters and not the normal average guy. Most of us on this sight I am willing to bet shoot more than 10 rounds a year. Its the guy that doesn't and still thinks he can shoot an elk at 500 yards is the one that pisses me off. I don't feel its an ethical question on the range of the shot I believe its an ethical question in regards to hunters taking shots that are outside of there skill set because they are not ethical enough to let an animal walk.
Its unethical to take a shot when you are not capable or practiced to take such a shot IMO the actually range has nothing to do with it so long as shooter and gear are up to the task. That question can only be answered by each individual before they pull the trigger. If in doubt do the ethical thing and watch it walk...
Long Range Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Athabasca Alberta aka God's Country
I have imposed my opinion on this for many years and you can check out the battles in Precision rifle forum. I will make this point, Im an avid Long Range hunter who strives for the perfect 1000 meter shot when conditions are PERFECT. I hunt with what I considder to be some of the best in Canada. Myself and my partners do not take a shot unless all is perfect and known and a contingency inplace and ready in the event a mistake is made, Proud to say the contingency shooters were never needed. We have had years with no animals taken because conditions were not right.
Ethical and Unethical is not a form of hunting, It's a mindset in those that have attained hunting licences and it is something that is not screened or tested for. I have seen Idiots mess up easy shots on game under 50 yrds. The people I hunt with do not take a shot unless it is 100% and I am proud to say I have never seen a second shot needed with those I hunt with.
I agree with riflechair in that there are ethics in hunting, but those ethics are determained by those that hunt, and there are unethical people out there. I would also agree that stricter testing should be done before Hunting licences are issued as well as firearms licences but that is another topic. Archery, black powder, handgun, Long Range, all forms of hunding should not be bashed on, but supported and deal with the real problem.....unqualified, incompetent, and low moral standards by some persueing the legitimate hunting sports.
Don't let a few bad apples give a great sport, and a very humane way to kill an animal a bad name.
Rifle Chair, I will pass to you the same invitation I have passed onto others I felt would benifit from the experiance. If you are interested in a Alberta Long Range hunt, I would be happy to show you how Ethical it is. Judging by your comments so far you do seem to hold some very good core values and I think with a little education it would be a sport you would fall in love with as well as enjoying the taste of game that has not been pressured or worked up.
Ethical and Unethical is not a form of hunting, It's a mindset in those that have attained hunting licences and it is something that is not screened or tested for. I have seen Idiots mess up easy shots on game under 50 yrds. The people I hunt with do not take a shot unless it is 100% and I am proud to say I have never seen a second shot needed with those I hunt with.
I agree with riflechair in that there are ethics in hunting, but those ethics are determained by those that hunt, and there are unethical people out there. I would also agree that stricter testing should be done before Hunting licences are issued as well as firearms licences but that is another topic. Archery, black powder, handgun, Long Range, all forms of hunding should not be bashed on, but supported and deal with the real problem.....unqualified, incompetent, and low moral standards by some persueing the legitimate hunting sports.
Don't let a few bad apples give a great sport, and a very humane way to kill an animal a bad name.
Rifle Chair, I will pass to you the same invitation I have passed onto others I felt would benifit from the experiance. If you are interested in a Alberta Long Range hunt, I would be happy to show you how Ethical it is. Judging by your comments so far you do seem to hold some very good core values and I think with a little education it would be a sport you would fall in love with as well as enjoying the taste of game that has not been pressured or worked up.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
From reading all of the posts so far, it seems there is some differing views on what is or is not ethical and the original post, as I interpret it basically states that unless a hunter can crawl up the backside of an animal and slay it from the inside, he is not a hunter nor is he an ethical hunter. Ethics are a personal choice, just as religion and opinions are, but who is really right?
My pet peave is with narrow minded zealots like Riflechair and Wendy Cukier who try to force feed their beliefs on others, all the time thinking they are holier than everyone else and that their beliefs are the only 1s that are of value. There is a place for them, unfortunately , not in public however.
Who elected them to be the judge of what is or what isn't ...?
I will grant there ARE some people out there that are taking shots they shouldn't. Both at long AND short ranges. It boils down to whether 1 has competence with a rifle, or bow, or not. There are some "hunters" who should not take a shot even at point blank, but your "Big Brother" approach is frightening, this is not a Orwellian country , yet.
To slam those few hunters who invest the considerable money in purchasing all the equipment to do the job and then the enormous amount of time to learn how to make long shots in all conditions consistently is pure crap.
To pass the same brush over all is extremely arrogant, much like stating all who live in Alberta are rednecks, or all that live in BC are socialists, you get the drift here I think. Your rant is narrow and biased, and unfortunately full of crap. I can only assume you have not tried serious long range hunting or are very jealous of those who do.
I would also assume you were not looking to increase your circle of friends here or to promote your website. If that was the plan, it failed miserably.
My pet peave is with narrow minded zealots like Riflechair and Wendy Cukier who try to force feed their beliefs on others, all the time thinking they are holier than everyone else and that their beliefs are the only 1s that are of value. There is a place for them, unfortunately , not in public however.
Who elected them to be the judge of what is or what isn't ...?
I will grant there ARE some people out there that are taking shots they shouldn't. Both at long AND short ranges. It boils down to whether 1 has competence with a rifle, or bow, or not. There are some "hunters" who should not take a shot even at point blank, but your "Big Brother" approach is frightening, this is not a Orwellian country , yet.
To slam those few hunters who invest the considerable money in purchasing all the equipment to do the job and then the enormous amount of time to learn how to make long shots in all conditions consistently is pure crap.
To pass the same brush over all is extremely arrogant, much like stating all who live in Alberta are rednecks, or all that live in BC are socialists, you get the drift here I think. Your rant is narrow and biased, and unfortunately full of crap. I can only assume you have not tried serious long range hunting or are very jealous of those who do.
I would also assume you were not looking to increase your circle of friends here or to promote your website. If that was the plan, it failed miserably.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
Good post Bro!!
I was hoping you would chime in, I too am up for schooling Riflechair on what LR hunting REALLY is as long as he participates with an open mind.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
Take the invite Rifle Chair. It sounds similar to an invite and experience that was offered to me. If you take advantage of the experience I think you'll find, as I did, it will be an eye opener. Seeing what is 'consistently' possible by people who practice, who know how to read conditions, know what they're doing and have the right equipment.
Why the fear of professionalism?
Thank you. This is what I was referring to on my comment about the stalking courses in the UK. While I hate extra rules and regs as well, I can see no harm in adding a stalking course, or something that would test ones proficiency and ability's in the hunting license requirements.
Also another reason for more professionalism is the simple fact that more and more hunting land is being bought each year, and as vast as Canada is sooner or later we are going to be in the same boat as hunters in other countries.
Case in point ask those of us that have to hunt near or on land owned by the Logging industry... right now those companies do not want to deal with an unruly mob of armed slobs wandering around their property that are loosing wounded game and are possibly sending wild shots into their staff and equipment.
Instead the big selling point to allow us on their land is the fact that many of us are Licensed, competent, insured people with good common sense and wildlife skills, ie...an asset to be the eyes and ears on their property.
I have it on good authority that this is the direction things are going.
Thank you. This is what I was referring to on my comment about the stalking courses in the UK. While I hate extra rules and regs as well, I can see no harm in adding a stalking course, or something that would test ones proficiency and ability's in the hunting license requirements.
Also another reason for more professionalism is the simple fact that more and more hunting land is being bought each year, and as vast as Canada is sooner or later we are going to be in the same boat as hunters in other countries.
Case in point ask those of us that have to hunt near or on land owned by the Logging industry... right now those companies do not want to deal with an unruly mob of armed slobs wandering around their property that are loosing wounded game and are possibly sending wild shots into their staff and equipment.
Instead the big selling point to allow us on their land is the fact that many of us are Licensed, competent, insured people with good common sense and wildlife skills, ie...an asset to be the eyes and ears on their property.
I have it on good authority that this is the direction things are going.
At what range does it become "Long range hunting"? I can't decide whether I'm a bad person or not.
20 yards. Anything further is just a lack of stalking talent. Just ask Calum, another socialist pinko looking out for the greater good. Him and Riflechair are the only ones with qualified opinions. They both have the boyscout badges to prove it.
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
Calum
While I do not totally disagree that mandatory education is potentially a good plan, the problem comes from , a) the disparity in instruction and b) despite education there are those who still will only do as they please.
I was taught gun handling safety as well as how to drive by my Dad, later I was again instructed in firearms handling in basic training, and again as a firearms instructor and RSO instructor at a shooting academy I then taught at , and yet again when I became an instructor with the CFC, so I consider myself pretty well trained in firearms safety.
I also took several advanced driving courses culminating in a job as a driver examiner for class 1 licences, so consider myself fairly well schooled in driving.
The point here is that despite all the after the fact education I have received in both firearms and driving, I honestly don't think that I am any safer/smarter/ ethical with either than what my Dad instilled into me so many years ago.
I know from instructing people in both situations that what they put forth during the education and testing is usually a long way from what they do once the pass the test and are either on the road or at the range under their own governance.
This should be pretty obvious if you spend any time driving or at a public range, the stupid crap some will do never ceases to amaze me, but at some point they passed a test.
I know of a few CFC authorized instructors who were only in it for the $$, so as long as you nodded your head when told, you passed.
As long as we are going to populate the earth with people, some will still act poorly and with disregard for not only the rules but also common sense. Most accidents happen because someone exercised poor judgment.
I think that with regards to this thread, many that have been targeted by the "ethics slag" are actually more guilty of poor judgement.
Now repeated poor judgement is a whole different thing.
I don't have the answer to solve the problems of guys either not wanting to use common sense, exercising decent ethics, or people just opting to not care about the rules, all I know is that most folks who drive or own guns have had some education, yet I see many on the roads and at the range that makes me wonder when Darwin will solve their problems for good.
While I do not totally disagree that mandatory education is potentially a good plan, the problem comes from , a) the disparity in instruction and b) despite education there are those who still will only do as they please.
I was taught gun handling safety as well as how to drive by my Dad, later I was again instructed in firearms handling in basic training, and again as a firearms instructor and RSO instructor at a shooting academy I then taught at , and yet again when I became an instructor with the CFC, so I consider myself pretty well trained in firearms safety.
I also took several advanced driving courses culminating in a job as a driver examiner for class 1 licences, so consider myself fairly well schooled in driving.
The point here is that despite all the after the fact education I have received in both firearms and driving, I honestly don't think that I am any safer/smarter/ ethical with either than what my Dad instilled into me so many years ago.
I know from instructing people in both situations that what they put forth during the education and testing is usually a long way from what they do once the pass the test and are either on the road or at the range under their own governance.
This should be pretty obvious if you spend any time driving or at a public range, the stupid crap some will do never ceases to amaze me, but at some point they passed a test.
I know of a few CFC authorized instructors who were only in it for the $$, so as long as you nodded your head when told, you passed.
As long as we are going to populate the earth with people, some will still act poorly and with disregard for not only the rules but also common sense. Most accidents happen because someone exercised poor judgment.
I think that with regards to this thread, many that have been targeted by the "ethics slag" are actually more guilty of poor judgement.
Now repeated poor judgement is a whole different thing.
I don't have the answer to solve the problems of guys either not wanting to use common sense, exercising decent ethics, or people just opting to not care about the rules, all I know is that most folks who drive or own guns have had some education, yet I see many on the roads and at the range that makes me wonder when Darwin will solve their problems for good.
20 yards. Anything further is just a lack of stalking talent. Just ask Calum, another socialist pinko looking out for the greater good. Him and Riflechair are the only ones with qualified opinions. They both have the boyscout badges to prove it.
I shot a sparrow at 330 yards yesterday, then a couple minutes later popped the 13 stripe ground squirrel that came to sniff the carcass. I wonder if I'm even qualified to shoot at a 20 yard deer?
I'm going with bad person.
Long Range Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Athabasca Alberta aka God's Country
Anyway, on a positive note, I put in ontime for my Draws and Im hoping for some very Long Range antelope this year with my good hunting buddies.
If we are successfull I will post results, I'm thinking it may be worth taking lots of photo's this year as an educational thing to show all what is done, how it's done and the homework behind it.
All I ask is that you take an honest look at it, do your homework before you form your opinions.....and maybe even partisapate as a hunter or observer with those that do it. Dont go out and buy a rifle and scope and start shooting at things a long ways away....there is alot of homework and knowing what your rifle and rounds will do where,and under what weather conditions, as well as knowing your personal limits and that of your equipment. I beleive it to be the most humane and yeild the best tasting wild game.....but that is just my opinion formed by my experiance.
P.S. Good post's Rick, your welcome to join me on a hunt anytime.
If we are successfull I will post results, I'm thinking it may be worth taking lots of photo's this year as an educational thing to show all what is done, how it's done and the homework behind it.
All I ask is that you take an honest look at it, do your homework before you form your opinions.....and maybe even partisapate as a hunter or observer with those that do it. Dont go out and buy a rifle and scope and start shooting at things a long ways away....there is alot of homework and knowing what your rifle and rounds will do where,and under what weather conditions, as well as knowing your personal limits and that of your equipment. I beleive it to be the most humane and yeild the best tasting wild game.....but that is just my opinion formed by my experiance.
P.S. Good post's Rick, your welcome to join me on a hunt anytime.
I shot a sparrow at 330 yards yesterday, then a couple minutes later popped the 13 stripe ground squirrel that came to sniff the carcass. I wonder if I'm even qualified to shoot at a 20 yard deer?
I'm going with bad person.
Maybe we should form a club? We'll call it BPSLD (Bad people shooting long distances). We get to wear the black cowboy hats and look evil! Could be fun!
It might be old age catching up to me, but it seems to be dominated by new young hunters with way too confidence in themselves and the absence of experience.
I see them at the range and in the gun store regularly and I hear their hunting stories.
It gives me great cause for concern.
Perhaps it generational but the young folks today seem to have a risk taking culture that is not appropriate in the hunting grounds. 700 metre shots! Bah...[/QUOTE]
maybe they are a better hunter than you ever were?
I see them at the range and in the gun store regularly and I hear their hunting stories.
It gives me great cause for concern.
Perhaps it generational but the young folks today seem to have a risk taking culture that is not appropriate in the hunting grounds. 700 metre shots! Bah...[/QUOTE]
maybe they are a better hunter than you ever were?
alberta tactical rifle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- calgary alberta
Anyway, on a positive note, I put in ontime for my Draws and Im hoping for some very Long Range antelope this year with my good hunting buddies.
If we are successfull I will post results, I'm thinking it may be worth taking lots of photo's this year as an educational thing to show all what is done, how it's done and the homework behind it.
P.S. Good post's Rick, your welcome to join me on a hunt anytime.
Glad I called you and that you got your poop together on the last days of draws.
Get Danger Deb practising with the video, I think that your camera idea is BRILLIANT!!!
I am confused though, you have always been welcomed to hunt with me, despite your whining about the gravel my truck fires at yours.
Or is that a cheap shot about my trekking up north to come hunt with you in the cold and buggy north??Looks like it is going to be a Bueno season, we were out to the killing field yesterday and saw several critters that seemed to be turning the area around our 1000 yard target into a home sweet home
You make sure you work on your ethics,
I am going to go reload now.That could work, but the name could be confused with Black Powder shooting long distance. Everybody knows that those can't shoot past 10 yards.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
If you practice thoroughly!
Good question. I cannot decide if that deer I cleanly harvested in 2005, with a 30-30 carbine/peep sights,@260 yards was ethical either?
At what range does it become "Long range hunting"? I can't decide whether I'm a bad person or not.
Good question. I cannot decide if that deer I cleanly harvested in 2005, with a 30-30 carbine/peep sights,@260 yards was ethical either?
That could work, but the name could be confused with Black Powder shooting long distance. Everybody knows that those can't shoot past 10 yards.
Isn't that Jim Shockey's club? Come to think of it... he's got a black hat too! Oh well...
