Does the perfect powder measure exist out there?
- Thread starter SIGP2101
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My personal opinion is never trust a powder measure 100%. I use a powder measure and still weigh every load. I do not use a progressive loader and found that my RCBS powder measure can be out and still use a trickler to get it on the money.
Thats just me and my opinion, I could be wrong.
Thats just me and my opinion, I could be wrong.
Tbdragonman, you are not wrong! That is your opinion and your way of doing it. Who could say it is wrong? Not me, I just have a different way of doing it to what you do.
Once I get the measure set, I weigh, maybe one out of every twenty. If I shot bench rest I would use your way. I do have a cabinet full of trophies I have won with rifle and pistol, won in various matches and types of shooting. However, in any shooting method where the shooter holds the rifle or pistol, free from any artificial rest, I can assure you a fraction of a grain of powder is not going to change your score. Nor will it cause a poor hit on the animal you shoot at, even using your artificial rest.
As an example, I shot silhouette with the 44 magnum revolver. I once used full charge, 22 grains of 2400. To help reduce recoil I dropped back to 20 grains. I didn't have to change my sight setting for any range up to 150 metres. At 200 metres it required one more click on the rear sight!
The key to using any measure with a handle to crank, is to use the handle the same with every stroke. How hard you hit the top of the stroke is very important. Hit the top stop hard, and you get a heavier charge of powder.
Try to make the exact same speed of pull every time. Doing it that way measures those hard to measure powder types we hear about, surprisingly accurate.
Once I get the measure set, I weigh, maybe one out of every twenty. If I shot bench rest I would use your way. I do have a cabinet full of trophies I have won with rifle and pistol, won in various matches and types of shooting. However, in any shooting method where the shooter holds the rifle or pistol, free from any artificial rest, I can assure you a fraction of a grain of powder is not going to change your score. Nor will it cause a poor hit on the animal you shoot at, even using your artificial rest.
As an example, I shot silhouette with the 44 magnum revolver. I once used full charge, 22 grains of 2400. To help reduce recoil I dropped back to 20 grains. I didn't have to change my sight setting for any range up to 150 metres. At 200 metres it required one more click on the rear sight!
The key to using any measure with a handle to crank, is to use the handle the same with every stroke. How hard you hit the top of the stroke is very important. Hit the top stop hard, and you get a heavier charge of powder.
Try to make the exact same speed of pull every time. Doing it that way measures those hard to measure powder types we hear about, surprisingly accurate.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
My Redding is a very accurate measure. Works well with most powders, except the big stick powders.
However, it's not perfect. You can still get powder hanging up due to static, and dropping on the next charge, along with human error, and slipped adjustments, or mistakes reading the manual. It's also possible to let junk on your reloading table interfere with your scale. Keep that scale clear of stuff, and check the zero every time you set up to use it, or move it even slightly.
I check the drop much as H4831 does, and when I've finished a loading block of cartridges, I check that they are all the same level.
That mistake reading the manual one can be very serious, particularly as you are quite likely to make the same mistake the second time you go to read it.
Always a good idea to use two sources for the load, as a cross check.
However, it's not perfect. You can still get powder hanging up due to static, and dropping on the next charge, along with human error, and slipped adjustments, or mistakes reading the manual. It's also possible to let junk on your reloading table interfere with your scale. Keep that scale clear of stuff, and check the zero every time you set up to use it, or move it even slightly.
I check the drop much as H4831 does, and when I've finished a loading block of cartridges, I check that they are all the same level.
That mistake reading the manual one can be very serious, particularly as you are quite likely to make the same mistake the second time you go to read it.
Always a good idea to use two sources for the load, as a cross check.
I have the following powder measures listed in the order that I like them:
Hornady- very accurate and easy to change settings with interchangable measures which is handy.
Lee- accurate enough but takes time to reset and cheap to buy.
RCBS- unaccurate with some powders and expensive to buy.
I also have Lee auto disks that work well enough in my Lee 1000 because I can't hit anything with a handgun and one or two points here and there won't make any difference
Thats just my opinion and others may have different choices.
I will not be buying any reloading product except Hornady anymore since I started buying their products. Might be selling some of my other equipment.
Hornady- very accurate and easy to change settings with interchangable measures which is handy.
Lee- accurate enough but takes time to reset and cheap to buy.
RCBS- unaccurate with some powders and expensive to buy.
I also have Lee auto disks that work well enough in my Lee 1000 because I can't hit anything with a handgun and one or two points here and there won't make any difference
Thats just my opinion and others may have different choices.
I will not be buying any reloading product except Hornady anymore since I started buying their products. Might be selling some of my other equipment.
I'm sure it depends somewhat on what type of powder they're throwing. The measure that came with my Lyman throws extruded powder within .5grains.
However the measure that came on the dillion 650 progressive throws flake pistol powder within .1 - .2 grains at most.
However the measure that came on the dillion 650 progressive throws flake pistol powder within .1 - .2 grains at most.
I use an electronic scale to "approach" the desired load on the powder measure (Dillon SDB) and when I'm satisfied I put 10 loads in the bucket and confirm its average in my magnetic scale (Dillon Eliminator). I recheck after 2-300 rounds and never had a problem. I only do pistol reload btw.
Looks nice but pricing is crazy, that cost doesn’t justify acquiring mechanical powder measure.
For that kind of money anyone could get accurate automatic electronic powder dispenser.
Which I have but I would also like to have old fashion tool that doesn’t depend on electricity to work properly.
RCBS Uniflow, with the dual cylinders, has worked well for me over the years. The small cylinder is used for pistol and smaller rifles, while the large can be used for large rifles (magnums mostly). Not really good if your pistol charges are down in the 2-3 grain range (I use a Lee micro-disk for that).
Once it is set up and I am happy with the charge throw, I do all of my cases. I don't bother to check weigh while I am throwing, but I do check the powder level in the cases, and check the weight of any that look different.
Once it is set up and I am happy with the charge throw, I do all of my cases. I don't bother to check weigh while I am throwing, but I do check the powder level in the cases, and check the weight of any that look different.
I've used quite a few diff. powder measures over the years, my current fav. is the Forster Benchrest model however, I concur with the earlier poster, and measure all my charges with a scale before I put them in the cases. Another thing that i try to do is use powders that will not allow double charges in cases, even if you try. That is why i like Trail Boss in pistol sized cartridges, very hard to double charge when it's overflowing!
Sometimes I think we all, including myself, get a little anal about power measuring. In any of the Hunter Benchrest matches that I participated, all of the charges were thrown from powder measures.
First, I know there will be derogatory cries of foul for this but here comes some reality.
A tenth of a grain of powder, one way or the other will make little or no difference to accuracy.
If you do a bit of practise and by trial and error on your technique with the throw lever, like a couple of sharp taps on the throw stroke bottom stop and use a flow dampener in the larger measures, you will be able to throw your charges within a tenth of a grain. Next find out how many charges your measure will throw accurately to a certain fill level in the bin, a line with a marker will make it easier. Then refill and tap down the powder column density with your finger tip to the desired point and continue on. Remember, as you use the measure, the powder is being compacted with every stroke of the lever.
I like the rest on this thread, was perplexed by the inaccuracy of the powder measure. When I started competetive shooting, a mentor took me under his wing and spilled a few of his techniques. I was having a hell of a time with the powder scale outside in the wind.
Just so you know, many fellows that shoot HBR and other competitive shooting venues, don't rely on extremely accurate powder measuring for accuracy. They rely on things like tight chambers and necks that have to be turned to fit within a few thousanths of an inch. Then they rely on precision loading systems, like Wilson dies with inserts that are interchangable to size the necks only and keep the whole cartridge as square as possible with less than .002 of runout over all. Many have less than 20 cases prepped at any one time and reload between strings on tables behind the shooting line. Another truism, those 20 cases will last the life of the rifle many times, because of the tight tolerances, there is little if any stretching and pressures tend to run a little higher though well within safe tolerances.
If you're loading close to maximum or over as some insist on doing, then a tenth of a grain can make a huge difference, especially safety wise but that's about it.
Throwing power charges is like everything else to do with shooting, if you have decent equipment to start with, it's all about knowledge and technique.
Generally, most hand loaders are people that are willing to go that extra step and put some effort into the process to achieve a reliable and consistant result. Because of our nature and because some people just love "gadgets" (fly fishermen are the worst) we tend to make things a lot more complicated than need be.
First, I know there will be derogatory cries of foul for this but here comes some reality.
A tenth of a grain of powder, one way or the other will make little or no difference to accuracy.
If you do a bit of practise and by trial and error on your technique with the throw lever, like a couple of sharp taps on the throw stroke bottom stop and use a flow dampener in the larger measures, you will be able to throw your charges within a tenth of a grain. Next find out how many charges your measure will throw accurately to a certain fill level in the bin, a line with a marker will make it easier. Then refill and tap down the powder column density with your finger tip to the desired point and continue on. Remember, as you use the measure, the powder is being compacted with every stroke of the lever.
I like the rest on this thread, was perplexed by the inaccuracy of the powder measure. When I started competetive shooting, a mentor took me under his wing and spilled a few of his techniques. I was having a hell of a time with the powder scale outside in the wind.
Just so you know, many fellows that shoot HBR and other competitive shooting venues, don't rely on extremely accurate powder measuring for accuracy. They rely on things like tight chambers and necks that have to be turned to fit within a few thousanths of an inch. Then they rely on precision loading systems, like Wilson dies with inserts that are interchangable to size the necks only and keep the whole cartridge as square as possible with less than .002 of runout over all. Many have less than 20 cases prepped at any one time and reload between strings on tables behind the shooting line. Another truism, those 20 cases will last the life of the rifle many times, because of the tight tolerances, there is little if any stretching and pressures tend to run a little higher though well within safe tolerances.
If you're loading close to maximum or over as some insist on doing, then a tenth of a grain can make a huge difference, especially safety wise but that's about it.
Throwing power charges is like everything else to do with shooting, if you have decent equipment to start with, it's all about knowledge and technique.
Generally, most hand loaders are people that are willing to go that extra step and put some effort into the process to achieve a reliable and consistant result. Because of our nature and because some people just love "gadgets" (fly fishermen are the worst) we tend to make things a lot more complicated than need be.
OK, first thanks to all of you who responded. Greatly appreciated guys. I got RCBS Uniflow Measure - used one but in the good shape. It is the sturdiest one out there. I took it apart for cleaning and inspection. Some inner parts need little bit of polishing. My question is can powder hopper be removed from the cast body of the measure?
I have a Hornady powder measure, but for some reason I find myself not using it. I prefer to use a lee powder scoop that gets me 98% close (you find the right scoop and technique) and I just trickle the remainder. So the powder pan remains on the scale as I quickly scoop it nearly there, trickle the rest and then pour into the case. I doubt I could do it faster with the powder dump as I have to somehow get it onto the scale anyhow.
For handgun, the lee automatic is close enough. I doubt the minor variation contributes to any misses.
For handgun, the lee automatic is close enough. I doubt the minor variation contributes to any misses.
I'm using a Redding competition powder measure. IMHO, its the powder that makes the difference. I'm using Vv N320 for pistol now. I double check weights every 25 loads or so and over 100's of rounds, virtually never find a charge far enough out of wack to merit an adjustment,, unless I've let the hopper run almost empty, (less than 1 1/4 inch or so). I don't get away with this with any other powder and don't even try with stick rifle powders.
Which takes me back to one of my recent reloading questions. Do you choose your powder based on ease of metering?
Unless I was working up a load, I'd only weigh one in 10-20 of the charged cases thrown with a Uniflow measure. I never panicked unless the weight was over half a grain out.
These days I just hit the button of the Casemaster dispenser and I get a dispensed and weighed charge, in less time than it takes to throw a charge, weigh on a beam scale and trickle up
I still use a thrower on the progressive press, for handgun and .223 practice ammo though.
These days I just hit the button of the Casemaster dispenser and I get a dispensed and weighed charge, in less time than it takes to throw a charge, weigh on a beam scale and trickle up
I still use a thrower on the progressive press, for handgun and .223 practice ammo though.
There was a time when I'd have considered this a frivolous notion. Now I don't. For volume loading like for pistol or to feed your AR, you're just not going to be all that pedantic so tossing consistently will impact the quality of your output. I'll be graduating to an AP press soon for loading these calibers (pistol/AR). Bet that I'll be using easily metered powders.
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
I have used Lymans good ole 55, hornady's LnL drop and RCBS uniflow. I find no real difference between any of them, save that the last two are a bit easier to adjust accuratly being threaded or micrometer style rather then slides. Lyman may have changed thier design, mine was my grandfathers and i use it cause i think of him when i do I find that with a ball or flake powder they all will drop within .1, and with stick powders they fluxuate more, say up to .3. For accuacy loads i drop .2 underweight and trickle, for loads once i've set up, i just throw and go. For handgun i just set .1 under what i want and weigh, if it's good i check every 100 or so, unless i'm using the LnL and going bulk, in which case i check at the start of the session and keep the hopper full. Inside 50 yards you won't get enough variation to matter with the handgun unless your an olympic bullseye shooter.
I find that with a ball or flake powder they all will drop within .1, and with stick powders they fluxuate more, say up to .3. For accuacy loads i drop .2 underweight and trickle, for loads once i've set up, i just throw and go. For handgun i just set .1 under what i want and weigh, if it's good i check every 100 or so, unless i'm using the LnL and going bulk, in which case i check at the start of the session and keep the hopper full. Inside 50 yards you won't get enough variation to matter with the handgun unless your an olympic bullseye shooter.
