Long Range Hunting - see Page 16 for Riflechair addition

[H4831]

Well, familiarity with a rifle sure helps being able to hit with it. We used to shoot a game called Rifleman's Rodeo in BC [Salmon Arm, Fraser Lake and Ashcroft] In this game we shot 5 targets, time limited, with a couple of running targets for S&G. The targets were life-size animals with scoring rings around the vital areas. The 10 ring on the goat was about 3" in diameter. At Fraser Lake, the goat was 300 yards out. We had a class in this game called "Frontier" Limitations were as follows: Lever action rifle [or carbine]with iron sights, (peep or open) chambered in a cartridge developed before the year 1900. The 30-30 was a shoe-in, so we used it almost exclusively. I saw that 300 yard goat dinged in the 10 ring many, many times with the 30-30 [did it myself numerous times] It is possible to get proficient with even a cartridge with a very curved trajectory. All it takes is lots of practice. Regards, Eagleye.

Just to add a bit here. In my tropy cabinet I have some results from shooting this competition in Salmon Arm. I have one first place, two seconds and one third place win in the Frontier catagory Eagleye speaks of, with each trophy representing a different year. As he says, it evolved into a 30-30 shoot and my 1956 94, with a Williams Fool Proof rear sight and a small gold bead front sight, did very well for me.
I just rested the bead on the top of the goats shoulder at 300 yards to drop the bullets into the small rings over the vital area.
In all the other many catagories of the competition, one could use any big game hunting type rifle and any sight. The shoot was designed for hunters, but it was always accomplished target shooters that won every event!
Dave probably remembers how many times a shooter would lay down, take his five shots at the random targets that appeared, one at a time, and score a perect zero!
As a point of interest, I was secretary of our club during some of these shoots and I have the original score sheets from at least two years shoots.

 

[farshot]

lets shift this thread to what is the real underlying question about our so called lack of ethics:

What is the only true religion? I know it is mine! The rest of you are in trouble.....

or maybe we can argue:

How do you feel about abortion? -- but you better agree with me or else you will not be part of my religion and again - you will all be in trouble........

 

[jacpor]

I read a few pages and I guess one has to determine what is hunting and what is shooting. To me hunting is trying to find an animal and get as close as I can before taking a shot. Whether hunting from a ground blind, observing animal patterns, spot and stalk, etc. Shooting is what I consider driving around spotting animals in a field or along bushes. Shots are taken from whatever distance at animals standing or running scared. Frankly, in some instance shooting at animal standing there looking at you is no great challenge and running game is hard to hit in the vitals with consistency. I have too often seen that scenario of what one calls himself a hunter, standing by the side of the road beside their vehicle and shooting at animals in open fields. Some of them wounding games and not making too many attempts in recovering them. I knew a guy who bought a 257 Weatherby attempting shots at what he said were 400 yards, In the course of a season he would take 20 + shots. He was sometimes getting one animal in a season, sometimes none. I prefer not to imagine how many animals were wounded and ended up to coyotes.That is really what I call lazy hunters and more or less shooters. Some of them go to the range the weekend before hunting season starts. They shoot 6" group and they are happy and walk away. Some also feel that their rifle was sighted-in the previous year and there is no need to waste bullets. Those are the ones giving a bad name to hunters. I have no qualms about people doing their homework, observing animal feeding patterns setting up a blind and doing long range shooting as long as they have the right equipment and they have practice their marksmanship and know their limits. The real long range shooters have practice often during the year. Consistently hitting with success at long range requires lots of practice and work and deserve some respect.

 

[casterpollox]

lets shift this thread to what is the real underlying question about our so called lack of ethics:

What is the only true religion? I know it is mine! The rest of you are in trouble.....

or maybe we can argue:

How do you feel about abortion? -- but you better agree with me or else you will not be part of my religion and again - you will all be in trouble........

HA ! Love it.

 

[CROWCA]

Based on the posts that you have to get close before you shoot anything.I am making it 10 feet or no shooting is allowed.If you cant get that close don't shoot.You can send me all your long range rifles since you will not need them anymore.Thanks in advance.

 

[sako6br]

Hello everyone. I'm new here but couldn't resist adding my five cents worth.
I built my rifle for exactly that... long range shooting/hunting. I shoot a lot of paper from the bench and off bipods. On calm overcast days and days where it's hot and sunny and the wind is blowing. Why do I do this? Is it to win a competition down at the local club? Nooo. Its to lay in a bean/hay field and blast ground hogs as far away as 400-500 yds with 90% kill on the first shot. Do I wound some? I suppose. Do I care? Hell no, I get to shot him again!
For the record, every shot I've taken at deer (in season ofcourse) has killed. I'm not saying that I'm a better shot but when it comes to big game the odds become 100% for this shooter/hunter. All my shots at deer have been taken from 25 to 150 yds and with some sort of rest to help support.
These are my own rules/ethics. I'm not preachin to anyone.

 

[Dogleg]

Based on the posts that you have to get close before you shoot anything.I am making it 10 feet or no shooting is allowed.If you cant get that close don't shoot.You can send me all your long range rifles since you will not need them anymore.Thanks in advance.

I'll see your ten feet, and raise you a bayonet. Real ethical hunters don't need shells in their rifles at at all.

 

[Lazy Ike]

Probably the most disturbing thing I've read in this thread was: "Hunters sight in day".

Ethical in this case, is knowing where your bullet is going to hit rather that thinking you know where it's going to hit. Distance is irrelevant and dead is dead.

 

[Dogleg]

For all the so called long rang shooters. Put an 8" paper plate up at 100 m if you can hit it consistantly free hand, you are a good shot, most cant. At 700 m if you are an expert have tatical knobs a good rest, a hit is possible, unless the animal decides to move as you squeeze the trigger. In my old age if I shoot anything I hope to give as humane death as possible.

I can stand on my hind legs and drill that 8" target all day. It took awhile to get good at, I'll tell you that. You're right that most can't.
Can you lay on your belly and hit that target at 700? Most can't, and it also takes awhile to get good at. How can you claim that those that can, aren't good shots?

 

[the keepa]

I should cringe at what some on this forum would think about the ethics of how I mostly (now-a-days)hunt...sitting in an elevated heated shooting shack on the edge of large hay fields, |slashes or on the end of 300 yd. shooting lanes(I have 5 shacks to choose from....working on no's 6 and 7 this summer .)
But I won't cringe ...I'll just wait, sipping a cup of coffee as the sun comes up,to see if Mr. Big is back .

 

[7.62mm]

I should cringe at what some on this forum would think about the ethics of how I mostly (now-a-days)hunt...sitting in an elevated heated shooting shack on the edge of large hay fields, |slashes or on the end of 300 yd. shooting lanes(I have 5 shacks to choose from....working on no's 6 and 7 this summer .)
But I won't cringe ...I'll just wait, sipping a cup of coffee as the sun comes up,to see if Mr. Big is back .

If it is legal, and makes you happy...............Good for you, I wish you many a fine hunt.

 

[Riflechair]

OK I've receive a lot of aggression here and I think that I probably deserve a lot of it.

If anything else it gave cause for a good discussion. I've had time to think my original post over and now realize that I really should have worded it better. I obviously have significant room to grow in the realm of long range hunting.

Appologies to those of you that I have offended. It was not my intention to do so.

I have worked in the Coast Range Mountains of BC for the last 18 years. I have worked in the silviculture industry for most of that time. During this term I have seen a significant number of road hunters shooting at game across lakes and across steep incised valleys for what I would consider extreme long range (700 or more metres). Remember I work and live in mountainous and heavily forested terrain. I am not talking about skilled shooters. These are road hunters shooting way outside their ability (we only have a rifle range that goes out to 200 metres).

I have even come across a dead bull moose in one of my fall tree planting projects that had been shot several times. It managed to walk away, find a dark hole and eventually dies. I was told about it by my planting supervisor but curiosity got the best of me. Some of the shots were in the right locations but had insufficient energy to expand. I left after shortly afterwards because of bears. In North west BC we're short range hunters at best but we can now see way out beyond of ballistic and marksmanship ability.

I should have used better language to describe this type of hunter because I know this is not the case for all long rang hunters. And I am not an anti-hunter! I love hunting and the commaraderie of being in the bush with good friends.

I really appreciate ATR and Long Range Canuck for their offers. I may just take you up on that. I am open to being educated.

This does not solve the ethical dilemna I find myself in.

In the Pacific Northwest of BC I have come across wounded game and hunters in the act of shooting at said game in situations that are very much against them. Way past the ballistic capabilities of factory ammunition of common calibres for the weekend hunter. I am frustrated, see this stuff on a semi-regular basis because I'm in the bush regularly during the open season. I even avoid certain hot spots due to fear of being shot at.

Editted to add.
Our open season is only 10 days long. On opening morning you can see tail lights for miles ahead of you in the dark wandering up logging roads looking for thier favorite hunting spot. The laws are trult rediculous and frankly don't make any sence to me.

Instead of the negative energy of this dialogue being directed at me I'd appreciate it if we could come up with positive solutions, as a group. Perhaps recommendations that could be sent to your local wildlife federation or Conservation Service?

I have been unsuccessful to describe the type of hunting activity that I am attempting (unsuccessfully to this point) to define. Feel a chunk of me hammered off every time I see it.

The BC Liberal Government has sliced the Conservation Service to the point where Officers are so few and resources are stretched over massive territories that they might as well not even exist. Hunters where I live have already earned a bad reputation and I don't want to see it continue. A little bit of education on ethics would really make things better.

 

[303carbine]

Ethics should equal or exceed accuracy.
I can hit'em from way out if I choose, I like'em closer to the truck.

 

[the keepa]

If it is legal, and makes you happy...............Good for you, I wish you many a fine hunt.

Thank you...Pretty hard to beat, especially when the weather is -30C outside and I,m sitting in shirt sleeves inside .
We have seen over 30 head of deer at one time/at the same time just before regular gun season .
For everyones sake I should declare all other types of hunting unethical .

 

[Johnn Peterson]

OK I've receive a lot of aggression here and I think that I probably deserve a lot of it.

If anything else it gave cause for a good discussion. I've had time to think my original post over and now realize that I really should have worded it better. I obviously have significant room to grow in the realm of long range hunting.

Appologies to those of you that I have offended. It was not my intention to do so.

I have worked in the Coast Range Mountains of BC for the last 18 years. I have worked in the silviculture industry for most of that time. During this term I have seen a significant number of road hunters shooting at game across lakes and across steep incised valleys for what I would consider extreme long range (700 or more metres). Remember I work and live in mountainous and heavily forested terrain. I am not talking about skilled shooters. These are road hunters shooting way outside their ability. I have even come across a dead bull moose in one of my fall tree planting projects that had been shot several times and left. Some of the shots were in right zones but had insufficient energy to expand and obtain the quick kill. I left right because of bears.

I should have used better language to describe this type of hunter because I know this is not the case for all long rang hunters. And I am not an anti-hunter! I love hunting and the commaraderie of being in the bush with good friends.

I really appreciate ATR and Long Range Canuck for their offers. I may just take you up on that. I am open to being educated.

This does not solve the ethical dilemna I find myself in.

In the Pacific Northwest of BC I have come across wounded game and hunters in the act of shooting at said game in situations that are very much against them. Way past the ballistic capabilities of factory ammunition of common calibres for the weekend hunter. I am frustrated, see this stuff on a semi-regular basis because I'm in the bush regularly during the open season. I even avoid certain hot spots due to fear of being shot at.

Anyhow, I'm signing off this thread.
Instead of the negative energy of this dialogue being directed at me I'd appreciate it if we could come up with positive solutions, as a group, that could be sent to the Ministry of Environment - Conservation Service to place importance on the type of hunter activity that I am attempting (unsuccessfully to this point) to define. Feel a chunk of me hammered off every time I see it.

Conservation Officers are so few, stretched resources and massive territories to manage that they might as well not even exist as a field prescence.

What's good for one isn't necessarily good for all and to add a quote for qualification, "a man has to know his limitations". I for one have have appreciated your post, your opinion and the dialogue by others. The fact that 'all', inculding yours truly, may not agree with your opinion is irrelevant. While I 'may' not share and agree with it, I do respect it as yours and respect and encourage your right to express it. Good thread!!

 

[Jimbobob08]

Instead of the negative energy of this dialogue being directed at me I'd appreciate it if we could come up with positive solutions, as a group, that could be sent to the Ministry of Environment - Conservation Service to place importance on the type of hunter activity that I am attempting (unsuccessfully to this point) to define. Feel a chunk of me hammered off every time I see it.

You lost me here in a big way. Even if the hunting community suggested great ideas by the time it's been refined it'll only harm us. We need to keep big brother out as much as possible, not invite him in. The road to hell will be paved with good intentions!

By the sounds of it your one of these guys who feels they have the right to stick his noise into everyone's business. Nothing I or anyone else will say will change that, and that's too bad. I dont stick my noise into grown men's business, it's not my right, just as it isn't yours. Sometimes the best way to learn is to do some really stupid ####. There's few outdoorsmen that haven't looked back and said holy #### what was I thinking at some point.

 

[Airborn_69]

When behind the counter of WSS-Edmonton, on many occasions we heard LR kills between 500-700yds Likely in the 250-300 range but everybody likes good hunting stories right?

 

[fozzy]

Inline with the original thread/rant, a while back on HBC, there was a thread accompanied by a video clip of a 700 + yard shot on an Elk.

I have made one long shot, a little over half of the shot on Elk and foolishly did so so because of the 'urgings' of my hunting buddy. The rifle and reload quality was well known and I had previously taken a few long range shots at a compareable distance so I had a pretty good idea of what result to expect.

Anyway, after viewing the video clip, I had a number of questions/concerns that definately would've kept me from taking that shot. I voiced those questions and concern in posts to that thread and recieved a response from a few guys close to home on Vancouver Island that are into long range target shooting. Further to proving their point, I recieved an invite to come & see and take part in a long range shoot. I took a friend/shooting buddy, hs4570, and we joined the guys for a long range session at the military range in Naniamo.

Long story short, I was IMPRESSED with what can be accomplished with the right equipment, knowing how to read conditions and variables by people that know what they are doing. My opportunity to practice at long ranges has been somewhat limited so those types of shots aren't a realistic consideration but it was an eye opener to see whats consistently possible by someone that knows what he's doing.

I remember that


As to the original poster you have a few valid points. Saying that long range hunting is irresponsible and unethical is BS. For some folks the very act of owning firearms is irresponsible and unethical. For some folks long range hunting is very possible and practical, these would be the folks that practice long range, lots. For those who practice long range, and there are many that don't consider 600 meters far.

There are people "on these forums" that shoot more than a couple sighters off of a coffee can two days before the season opens. The very name of this website suggests just that! Some folks enjoy shooting year round. Imagine that!

Yes there will be some folks that tout about shooting waay farther than they should and there always will be. Just like there are folks that shouldn't be allowed to drive a shopping cart too, while to a NASCAR driver driving 120km/h seems really slow.



I myself have shot many deer at ranges measured in feet. I've taken up archery again, a hunting discipline that requires the ultimate in stalking and close encounters, getting close to the animals is fun.

In the off season I also practice shooting long range, the farther the better. There is no substitute for rounds down range in all conditions at all ranges to practice for that one shot during hunting season at whatever range it happens to be.


To paint everyone with the same brush is unacceptable. Given the right equipment some guidance and enough practice, you might find that you would have a different outlook?

After I posted this I continued to read some more of the thread. Glad to see that LRC put out the invite to try some LR shooting. I have done so in the past and will do again anytime someone wants to give it a try.

This has been a good thread with many valid points.

 

[Calum]

You lost me here in a big way. Even if the hunting community suggested great ideas by the time it's been refined it'll only harm us. We need to keep big brother out as much as possible, not invite him in. The road to hell will be paved with good intentions!

As Riflechair suggests we need unified front on these issues that can offer solutions. And hopfully before " Big Brother" does it for us.

As the current NIMBY system hunters are using is clearly not working in the eyes of the land owners such as Logging companies, and other natural resource based companies that we cross paths with out in the woods.

In the 6 years I have been hunting this Island I have seen a dramatic change in the attitude towards hunters...with each gong show move by a few slobs adding more locks to the gates every season, along with no hunting signs.

 

[farshot]

Ahhh - no we are at the root of the issue...
Because certain bad individuals are causing harm to the image of hunting we need to set up some sort of "system" of controls to prevent loss of hunting lands or further loss of image.

I do not want to be a naysayer but I think that would be doomed from the start. The same "bad individual that spoils it for everyone" issues are arising be it 4-wheel driving, dirt biking, fishing, mountain biking, hiking, hot air ballooning, cave exploring, camping, rv'ing, .... you get my point.

Available lands are shrinking and the desire to use lands for recreational pursuits are growing sooo quickly.

In my humble opinion, the use of lands depends on you - no one else - it is up to you the individual to foster comfort with the landowner, whoever they may be, that you are acceptable to hunt on their lands, despite the no hunting signs.
You do that and grow that relationship, you will have the best of all worlds.