Montana Hunt: Crossing the boarder

bp_mustang

bp_mustang

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Hi Everyone,

Wondering if some of you guys might have some advice and/or input for me regarding a hunting trip in the US from Ontario.

I'm finally taking my father on an antelope hunt in Montana in Oct (we've been talking about it for 10 yrs already). I've been doing a lot of research and planning over the last 6 months. I've taken care of the bulk of major items so far got our tags, got an outfitter, sent off the application for temporiary firearms import to ATF, etc. The one thing I'm still uncertain about that no one seems to be able to clearly answer is with regards to bringing the game meat back into Canada.

I would have thought this would be clearly defined and outlined on the Candian Boarder (CBSA) website and/or documentation. In looking into it I've gone over both CBSA and Canadian Food Inspection (CFIA) extensively without much clear definition on what can occur. I've phoned into both agencies and got different responses, both of which don't seem to make much sense and quite frankly they didn't really seem to understand or care;

CBSA - allowed 5 kg of meat "period"
CFIA - with hunting tag your allowed 20 kg per person of cut game meat or entire animal (they are no other ways for larger quanities >20kg)

Surely a lot of guys get elk, moose, and other big animials so there has to be a proper/legal way to bring more than 20 kg of meat into Canada.

I guess ulitmately my question is (sorry for the long wait).......

1) What have your experiences been when cross the boarder for hunting both with meat & firearms recently???
2) Where I can find the proper documentation or contact info for this (I've already been on the foremost mentioned websites) ???

If anyone has any other advice and/or comments to it's appreciated
 
When you leave the US, you need to stop in at US customs and get an export permit for the animal, as well as verify with them that your firearms are leaving with you. YMMV but this is the way they want you to do it. If I'm driving across the border at any of the Great Lakes crossings, I don't even bother with that step because the officials there don't seem to care for this step, nor do they have the appropriate papers to do it.

Canada customs has never given me a hassle with bringing meat in. I've done it numerous times and have never even been asked a single question about it after I've declared it. From time to time, they ask to see your PAL or registration certificate for the firearm. Out of maybe 20-25 times I've only had my firearm physically inspected by Canada Customs once, and this was at Pearson on a return flight from Anchorage.

Those are my experiences... Sorry but i can't quote the exact phrasing of the laws.
 
stubblejumper said:
Be aware that you need a permit from the US authorities to take your firearms into the USA.This permit can takes months to obtain.
Click to expand...

The time varies. These days they are pretty quick with getting them back especially if they fax it to you. If you make any tiny mistake filling it out, they will mail it back to you with a big DENIED stamp on it, and you have to start over.
 
I just finished a pig hunt in Hawaii (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306620) and brought back the meat. Like you I phoned the gov't first and got some confusing answers but tried again and lucked out with a great guy who talked me through it. You can use the Automated Import Reference System (AIRS) to seach out what the import rules are for whatever meat you are bringing back. http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/imp/airse.shtml Its the same website the guy at the border (CBSA) will use to look the (CFIA) rules up so it helps to do your own search, print out the results and bring a copy with you. I was told (and the website confirmed) that anything over 44lbs per person of meat automatically made you a 'commercial importer' with all the crazy paperwork/inspections/permits that go with that. When I put in antelope from Montana into the webpage I got the 20kg/44lb restriction for you too. You can then use GEDS http://sage-geds.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/cgi-bin/direct500/eng/BE to find a local inspector to call and discuss options with.
Anyways, hope this was helpful.
 
Thanks guys for your input. Much appreciated.

Jaydog: Did you end up going through as an "commerical importer" from you pig hunt. If so was it a big hassle?
 
I didn't have to- I brought back 80-ish pounds of meat (allowed amount for my wife and I) no problems. When I checked ahead of time with the CFIA inspector here he said being a commercial importer would be a nightmare of paperwork and may not be possible b/c the animal in question would have to be slaughtered at an approved facility......
I never pursued what exactly the paperwork would have been though.
 
blargon said:
How much meat is on an antelope? You would want it boneless of course...
Click to expand...

Well both my dad and I are taking a buck & doe each. When my dad was out there 16 yrs ago he thinks it would be approx 50lbs. We'll mostly likely be ok, and I'm going to talk with our guide on exactly how much we will probably get. I'm just trying to find out all our options in advance so there are no surprises at the boarder......ice will only keep it cool for a couple of days ;).
 
The weight restriction applys to processed meat, as I recall CFIA alows for the importation of the whole carcass of games animals depending on the origin. The MNR has seperate restrictions on the importation of game animals but the CBSA has no mandate to enforce provincial regulations. Use the AIRS program if it's working or contact CFIA directly as it's their rules the CBSA enforces.
 
We came back with 3 antelope in the back of the truck a number of years ago and nobody at the border cared. We were just waved on through. Things may have changed in 15 -18 years but then they just asked if we had any purchases to declare.
 
The permit for temporary import of a firearm and ammunition is the ATF form 6NIA. Takes only a few mins. to fill out but as mentioned it must be totally correct with no errors. Takes about 6-8 weeks by mail. You must have a valid hunting license copy from any state sent along with the form. Not a big deal at all. You can google this and download the form in seconds. Also you can purchase a license on line...that takes only seconds as well. I go through this each year as I hunt prairie dogs in South Dakota.
 
Since it's been mentioned a couple of time perhaps I wasn't clear with my original post.

I have already got the temporary import application into the ATF and already got our antelope licenses. I've been more concerned about bringing the meat back and was curious about people experiences at the boarder :canadaFlag:.

I do appreciate all the feedback that I've been getting.
 
Thought I would post a follow-up after the hunt for anyone interested.....and possible a "HEADS-UP" for others :mad: :mad: :mad:.

So although the 68 mustang was suppose to be part of the fun along the trip we did end up taking my dad's truck so we could bring the entire carcasses back as the CBSA instructed. I did phone in several time to the CSBA to enquire as to what the regulations were on bring the meat back and specifically the 20kg? I also sent out three e-mails to get an answer as well with the first two response stating to look on their website (which obviously I had done quite thoroughly), so I sent a response back specifically asking for an "answer in writing" to which I got a response 2 weeks later saying I had to phone in to the CBSA 1-800 number. After many bull$h!t answer on the phone and a dozen phone calls I finally was put through to one of the higher ranking boarder agents and he told me I was allowed to bring the entire carcass whole (I wish I had have written down his name which I advise to anyone doing this in the future).

Anyways the way we got all the antelope back was;

  • insulated the entire back of the truck with a custom lid
  • packed each antelope's interior carcasses with ice (in bags to not spoil the meat)
  • stopped in Billings MT at the area and filled the truck with snow from an arena.....bit of advice to anyone Billings "RimRock Arena" is not an ice-rink it's a Rodea arena (but we sure got a good laugh out of that) :D :D :D
  • and drove 15hr each day to do the trip in under 2 days

......NEEDLESS TO SAY WE DID OUR DUE-DILIGENCE to get this meat home as per the CBSA requirements.

Before we got to the boarder;
  • we unpacked the snow so they could see the carcasses should they wish
  • license/tags properly fixed on antelope (done in MT)
  • left heads on for identification
  • had all the proper firearms paperwork nicely layed out in a binder (PAL, Registration Certificates, ATF import permits, passports)

At the boarder, we declared everything properly and of course (with good reason) he went over things thoroughly regarding firearms. This all went smoothly as everything was in order and well laid out for them in one concise binder (unlike this post ;) )

Then the meat issue came up and the boarder guard didn't know the rules/regulations so he phoned to someone else.....who then phoned to someone else......who then informed the guard the only way is if all the meat is "cut and wrapped." :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I informed him very politely (as hard as it was to contain) everything I had gone through and had been instructed by the CBSA. I told him if he wants my dad and I could pull off to the side right there and have them cut & wrapped in 20 minutes.....we butcher all our own meat anyways so we've gotten pretty good/quick at it. Didn't matter we were being sent in for the full inspection. He hands me a piece of paper and send me off to right to be inspected by two others.

HERE'S WERE IT GETS REALLY INTERESTING

They instructed me to pull in / turn off the truck / stay in the vehicle / and I gave them the piece of paper. They then start asking about the firearms again (which is fair). I answered their questions and gave them the binder with all the paperwork again. I showed him the ATF temporary import permit which by CBSA regulations I'm suppose to show to prove the firearms have been exported and are now being re-important.....and he didn't even know what an ATF import permit was or that he needed to see it. I kept my mouth shout and didn't say a damn word.

Anyways when all that was done regarding the firearms he simply sent us on our way and NEVER even asked, looked, or inspected the carcasses/meat. Needless to say I was driving for the next 15km looking in my rear-view mirror.

We were VERY lucky that we didn't have a problem and made it back with our meat, but this should never have happened after trying to do things properly. To this day I truely believe that the CBSA still don't know and/or have an answer on what their own regulations are. After everything I went through to do it "by-the-book" I could have lost all our meat and ruined the $6000 hunt through no fault of my own.

MORAL OF ALL THIS FOR ANYONE (who has read this far ;) )
STAY IN CANADA
IF YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN WHEN IT COMES TO HUNTING......or adleast be prepared to take the chance cross the boarder




.......I have talked with several people who haven't had any issues doing the same things so I'm sure it's not always this bad, but anyone planning a hunt should be aware. In addition for anyone else so that they know their are issues coming into Ontario with deer & elk horns (due to CWD), fortunately antelope are exempt as they are part of the goat family.
 
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