cz858 vs RobArms xcr

ShaneN.

ShaneN.

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I'm absolutely spent from getting into the sport at the moment. Over the last two months I've gone through the courses, att stuff, range/course fee, purchasing saffe, locks, equiptment, ammo, pistols, etc etc etc, but next I want something NS.

Now, I know the obvious difference like price, caliber, type, but, coming from an absolute newbie, what is the difference in accuracy, reliability, distance, etc? I bet you guys are going to tell me how absolutely un-comparable they are but I've gotta learn somewhere...
 
I have a CZ858 so I can speak from experience. I think it is the biggest bargain on the market right now. I have all the aftermarket crap you can think of on mine and have a holosight optic on it. The gun has never, ever jammed. It is more accurate than I am considering the sights, etc. Ergonomics are great. Magazines are cheeeep and so is the ammo. I have never experienced the gremlin. What is not to like? RobArms products may be good, but they are expensive - even before you start adding stuff on and buying ammo. The 858 is a battle proven gun that you can even hunt with. It would be a no brainer for me. Good luck.
 
ShaneN. said:
How about accuracy and range?
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Speaking to the 858.
7.62x39 is not a precision round, especially not the Czech surplus stuff.
With surplus there is enough variability in the ammo to scatter your shots pretty widely.

But from my service rifle competition experiences using surplus I can tell you this. Within 200 meters she's a lethal, lethal, machine. They point very well; I get on target and get my first shots off much more quickly than the AR guys.

I've hit v-bulls from 500 meters also, but not many, the real effective range probably tops out at ~400 meters. On an ideal shooting day at 400 you can keep damn near everything on the target screen from 400 with the irons.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSr1PaoSmSQ)

My advice; buy an 858 and a bunch of ammo. You'll get way more trigger time out of it. Especially considering for the extra amount you'll pay for an XCR, you could buy 9 crates of 7.62x39.
 
I have both. The 858 is an indestructible peasant gun, which is a good thing. It's accurate too. It is better suited than the xcr for a truck gun.

The xcr is modern, easyto add all types of optics, and is much more accurate than the 858. It is also dead reliable (well mine is).

The xcr has the potential to be much more as well with the ability to change calibers with a bolt and barrel change.

I love em both, so you should get both
 
A side note on the 858, I have one of the original 858s that arrived in Canada. I did have it crap out with gremlin thing. Wolverine took care of it and the gun runs great again.

I don't think marstars guns had this problem, and I don't know if the newer batches from wolverine have it either.
 
I can't speak for the 858 but my 58 is freaking reliable and pretty darn accurate. Eats fmj, hollowpoint and softpoints like a fat kid with candy. When I miss the 12" plate at 300 yards I know it is me. The big advantage of the XCR is the ability to add optics.
my 2 cents.
 
Are they similar in accuracy and for what distances you can shoot at? Or is the cz closer to the SKS in accuracy?

But yah, gonna have to get both. Will probably get the cz first!
 
My understanding is that the XCR should be shootable out to ~600. If you really want to know the details on the XCR I suggest you go ask in the "Black-rifles" section. A "Red-rifle" it is not and most of us Red-rifle guys would rather eat dirt than spend $2500 on a rifle. Most of us just don't have first hand knowledge of it.

Besides which; the XCR is not really all that comparable to the VZ-58.

The AR-15 is a better comparison to the XCR in much the same way that the AK-47 is a better comparison to the VZ-58. In both cases the latter rifles are new designs meant to surpass the former. (Interestingly my observation is that; Red-rifle guys tend to like the VZ, and Black-rifle guys tend to pick the AR)
 
Exoce† said:
My understanding is that the XCR should be shootable out to ~600. If you really want to know the details on the XCR I suggest you go ask in the "Black-rifles" section. A "Red-rifle" it is not and most of us Red-rifle guys would rather eat dirt than spend $2500 on a rifle. Most of us just don't have first hand knowledge of it.

Besides which; the XCR is not really all that comparable to the VZ-58.

The AR-15 is a better comparison to the XCR in much the same way that the AK-47 is a better comparison to the VZ-58. In both cases the latter rifles are new designs meant to surpass the former. (Interestingly my observation is that; Red-rifle guys tend to like the VZ, and Black-rifle guys tend to pick the AR)
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Fair enough, that's all I was really looking for. I can imagine the xcr is more accurate and precise but at the same time the cz is more than enough for me to have fun. Since I'm broke from getting int he sport, I'll go for the cz first, get a case of ammo, some tactical stff and shoot the hell out of it. I really want a nice black rifle at some point though, as well.
 
ShaneN. said:
Fair enough, that's all I was really looking for. I can imagine the xcr is more accurate and precise but at the same time the cz is more than enough for me to have fun. Since I'm broke from getting int he sport, I'll go for the cz first, get a case of ammo, some tactical stff and shoot the hell out of it. I really want a nice black rifle at some point though, as well.
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I hear ya.
Personally I'm waiting with baited breath for Marstar to bring in a whack of Norc M4'gerys. I'm looking forward to pimping-out one of those.
 
With proper ammo I think the CZ858/VZ58 is close to as accurate as the XCR. I have gotten 1.5" groups with Norc silver and blue box. I'm sure if you worked up your own load one could do even better.
 
The 858 is accurate, but I have seen a guy on arfcom pull a 5/8" group with the xcr with his own handloads.

I would put the 858 way ahead of the sks in terms of accuracy, but the xcr is a step up, in ar15 levels. An 858 will not touch an xcr in accuracy.

That said, when you shoot an 858, you're not gonna use it in bench rest competitions. It will hit what you are shooting at, if you can.

I would buy it first. Then work hard, save some $$$, buy an xcr, and an ar15, and pe90, and a tavor. These guns ALL rock.
 
I own an XCR and I have shot both.

The 858's are a low end gun. Very, very good for the price. They are a lot of fun, ammo is cheap and currently plentiful. Its not a precision firearm. They are good, not great, accuracy wise. I distrust anyone who says they can hit the bull with one at more than 200 yds, because its hard to even see the bull that far out. 200 I can believe.

The XCR is much more expensive, but an exquisite piece of technology. Lots of improvements, runs very clean, taking it apart is extraordinarily easy. This is a big issue for the CZ's because the ammo is very dirty, you'll need to clean it each use. I clean my XCR regularly, but if I forgot it wouldn't be the end of the world. The XCR is more user friendly, with better ergonomics (even though it is heavier), and of course the built in pic rails are better for mounting accessories.

Honestly, its an apples and oranges thing. If you want something to have fun blasting away at the range, get the 858. IF you want an accurate platform with an elegant design get the XCR.

Its basically pick up truck v. sportscar.
 
Another thing to consider as far as accuracy is when you shoot an XCR you will probably be shooting handloads or good commercial ammo and in the Czech gun you will most likely be using mil-surplus. Then I can see a HUGE difference in accuracy. In my 58 I use winchester and federal and have quite a difference in group size over mil-surplus. Now I should mention my gun was built by myself and set the headspace at the minimum for the rounds I shoot.
Anyway, decide what kind of shooting you plan on doing and see which rifle makes the most sense for that. There is no single rifle that will cover all shooting sports so buy for YOUR needs.
 
Urban_Ops said:
Another thing to consider as far as accuracy is when you shoot an XCR you will probably be shooting handloads or good commercial ammo and in the Czech gun you will most likely be using mil-surplus. Then I can see a HUGE difference in accuracy. In my 58 I use winchester and federal and have quite a difference in group size over mil-surplus.
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Exactly! This also speaks to Paul Morrison's dirty comment.

I would imagine that when using the same grade commercial ammo the XCR gets groups that are <.5" tighter if that.

Controls on the XCR will be better but at the end of summer we should have a the bolt release and magazine release worked out for the VZ and then it will be hard to say the VZ is outdated.
 
Throttle_monkey1 said:
The 858 is accurate, but I have seen a guy on arfcom pull a 5/8" group with the xcr with his own handloads.

I would put the 858 way ahead of the sks in terms of accuracy, but the xcr is a step up, in ar15 levels. An 858 will not touch an xcr in accuracy.

That said, when you shoot an 858, you're not gonna use it in bench rest competitions. It will hit what you are shooting at, if you can.

I would buy it first. Then work hard, save some $$$, buy an xcr, and an ar15, and pe90, and a tavor. These guns ALL rock.
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I went this route except I bought the XCR, Tavor, PE90, AR15 then the 858 in that order. :D
 
In my experience both guns are only really usfull out to 200 yards. AT that distance you are always on teh money. At 300, it gets sketchy.
 
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