Touch hole position in flintlock

[Gun Lover]

Hi, I just bought my first flintlock, a Lyman Trade Rifle, and have a couple of questions to ask.

First, what should be the ideal position of the touch hole in relation to the pan? The one in my rifle is about 1 or 2mm above the bottom of the pan, but nowhere near center. In fact, I'd say it's closer to the rear edge of the pan than to the center of it!

Second; for those of you who pre cut your own patches, how big do you cut them, something like 1 1/4", round or squeare?

Thanks.

 

[migrant hunter]

I have a Lyman Great Plains Rifle, and I love it dearly!
I imagine the lock should be the same as yours, and yes it"s slightly to the rear and the centre of the hole is about level with the top of the pan.
Once I got past the BS (that you can use black powder substitutes) and started using FFF goex, I had no ignition problems, and can"t believe how fast it is(I"ve owned percussion guns too, and flintlock is the way to go! )
I but pre-cut patches(the thickness of the patch is crucial, if your serious about accuracy) and lube them before loading.(Bore Butter)
Don"t worry about the flashole, it"ll be fine.

 

[mooncoon]

Ideally the vent hole should be level with the top of the pan and centered on the pan front to back. The argument being that you do not want powder covering the vent hole because the powder burns like a fuse. On the other hand, I find after 10 or 15 shots, I often have to leave a few grains of powder sort of resting in the hole although the pan charge has a bit of a gap between the side of the barrel and the top of the powder. That is because I rarely run a vent pic into the vent hole as it gets fouled.
As to patch size, pick up one of your own patches that have been cut at the muzzle and make the precuts somewhat larger. Make them too small and you have to be really fussy about centering the ball on the patch

cheers mooncoon

 

[Alonzo]

I have shot a "rock-lock" for decades and found a few "tricks" some which were mentioned.
When loading I have always used a vent pick...A large paper clip straightened out. Set in the hole angled to back of the gun with frizzen closed. Prior to loading I ensure the flint is square to the frizzen using the paper clip as a gauge for distance from flint to frizzen face. In priming I trail the FFFFg from the hole to the outer end of the pan, with about 2/3's level with pan at the outside. This produces a "rocket" effect with the priming charge, pushing the flame into the barrel and the hollow produced by the paper clip. More surface area for the flame to contact inside the barrel is present when using the paper clip. I tried firing the gun upside down on a dare by a fellow shooter who could believe how fast the ignition was...it fired flawlessly and I won the bet.
The gun is a custom built Hawken full stock made by #### Hanson in Montana, using a Bauska barrel and Siler lock. I have used it to out-shoot cap guns at black powder shoots in western Canada and North western USA. It is a blast to shoot off-hand.
Cheers

 

[Gun Lover]

Yes migrant hunter that is exactly where the TH in mine is in relation to the pan. As for patches, I already bought a meter of pillow tick at Wal-Mart, it mikes at .015, so now I only have to find some Soluble Oil to prepare me some moose milk. I don't have any bought patches; that's why I wanted an idea about which size I should cut them. I was just afraid it might make a big difference if I cut them too big, but judging my mooncoon's comments I'm better off having them a little too big than a little too small. I guess I'll be ok by cutting them so that the corners touch and extend a little on the other side of the balls, once they're wrapped around them.

Now Alonzo, I'm not sure I understood the paper clip thing 100%. I got the part of using it as a pick, but I don't see how you use it to determine the squareness of the flint in relation to the frizzen. Or, did you just mean you install the flint a paper clip thickness away from the barrel, as to leave a little gap in there?

Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it!

 

[Alonzo]

Yes migrant hunter that is exactly where the TH in mine is in relation to the pan. As for patches, I already bought a meter of pillow tick at Wal-Mart, it mikes at .015, so now I only have to find some Soluble Oil to prepare me some moose milk. I don't have any bought patches; that's why I wanted an idea about which size I should cut them. I was just afraid it might make a big difference if I cut them too big, but judging my mooncoon's comments I'm better off having them a little too big than a little too small. I guess I'll be ok by cutting them so that the corners touch and extend a little on the other side of the balls, once they're wrapped around them.

Now Alonzo, I'm not sure I understood the paper clip thing 100%. I got the part of using it as a pick, but I don't see how you use it to determine the squareness of the flint in relation to the frizzen. Or, did you just mean you install the flint a paper clip thickness away from the barrel, as to leave a little gap in there?

Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it!

Real easy...Hammer on half ####, frizzen closed. Square up the flint in the hammer jaws and adjust so there is enough gap to pass the paper clip between the flint and frizzen face. The flint needs to contact the frizzen squarely and fully. If the flint is too long it may come in contact with the barrel...I have always aligned the flint with the frizzen and have never had any problems. If the flint is too short most can be adjusted unless they are worn out...chuck it get another flint. I also tried installing the flint with the flat up and bevel down...too inconsistent, though looked pretty cool.
Another quick word of advise...stay away from agate...it will chew up your frizzen and give you very inconsistent ignition. Years ago agate was all rage in the minds of black powder "experts". I tried it in three different guns and it did not work...I ended up having to re-face the frizzen on a spaghetti Hawken because the agate chewed the daylights out of it...sold the gun and went and went custom and never looked back.
Cheers

 

[Gun Lover]

Got it! Thanks. However, here is my predicament at this point:
First; if I back off the rock enough to leave a gap between it and the frizzen, I’d be lucky if it touches the bottom third of the frizzen, never mind even half of it. Would that be enough?

Second; I know agate flints are considered crap by most knowledgeable flintlock shooters, but that’s what came with my rifle and I haven’t been able to find any other type locally. So I’ll have to wait until I can order some better ones from ToW, I guess.

Third; I can’t really install the agate rock with the bevel up, because they’re too long and they hit the pan when the #### falls forward. I tried it and a corner of the agate just flew off.

And last; I know custom is the way to go for almost all guns, but unfortunately, we can’t all go that route. I might in the future, if I ever get hooked enough, but right now I’m more hooked on other stuff. I just didn’t want to miss on any of the flintlock fun in the meantime.

I have other questions, but might just start another thread so that the subject would better reflect what it’s all about.

Again, thanks a lot for your help, it is really appreciated.

 

[Alonzo]

Hey G.L.
Try flipping your rock.
If it only contacts the bottom third of the frizzen in a normal bevel up position...try it upside down.
A quick question...if you "dry-fire" the gun...does the spark shower fly all over?

Check if the frizzen face is square and flat (not gouged into a trough) and is free of ridges across the face. I had a Lyman Hawken that had shallow ridges across the face of the frizzen and all it did was throw open the frizzen before the hammer was fully down...plus it threw the sparks all over with very little going in the pan. Check the tension on the frizzen spring as well. The frizzen should not pop open easily and conversely it should not take a herd of mules to pull it open. If it is a roller spring (common of L:&R locks)...get rid of it and put in a leaf spring. The roller allows the frizzen to open too soon, too easily and inconsistently once it fouls.

I have to mention...all of this applies to flintlock rifles...not to flintlock muskets. There is a difference....big time.

Cheers