XM* RIfle I'm lovin this

[Leibermuster]

I don't think this one will melt after just 5 Beta mags! Oh, wait, Betamags are for mouse guns only and this one fires only serious ammo... Well, I don't think it would melt anyways!

That's not an assault rifle, so your point is mute. It's a medium machine gun or platoon support weapon and is utilized in those roles generally speaking.

 

[rivetc78]

Wow.. We are back into 2003 or what...??

 

[canucklehead]

If I could I would own H&K, quality means a lot to me, something you probably have no experience with...

You're right - I own three Cooeys, an SKS, and Hi-point .45.

You're a Kool-aid drinker - the faster you admit that, the better off you'll be. HK makes EVERYTHING the best. It's HK or nothing. All else is poo. I get it. Fine. Give your head a shake.

I don't think you want to get into a 'who owns what' pissing contest - you'll lose.

 

[Rich LPS]

suprathepeg,

You're not familiar with the Knight's G36 rails and have never used them. They allow for everything you are saying the G36 can't do. They come in two pieces and are mounted low. The area directly above the charging handle is free and open, not like some of the poor full length one piece rails.

The XM8 improved on the operating controls of the G36 and allowed for a left and right handed operation of holding and releasing the bolt.

Rich

 

[F22_RaptoR]

The XM8 was a good rifle, but it suffered from a problem that NO weapon could have won over:

Weight.

The XM8 was SUPPOSED to be like 4.5 pounds or something ridiculous like that. (i think it was closer to 7 pounds at the end of its development life)


Most of HK's polymer rifles like the G36 have a big steel trunion, steel guide rails etc... built into the polymer to make it more rigid when hot. You should see the steel block in the USC, its massive.

The XM8 kept getting its weight reduced, and since plastic is lighter than steel, they made the steel parts smaller and used more plastic.


It got to the point where the XM8's barrel would start to droop in the "suppression" role when letting of several beta mags at a time (stupid stupid idea).

In any case, it was a good rifle... If the weight wasn't such an issue, and they made it with a more solid steel skeleton, and had PICATINNY rail points on it, rather than the stupid system they came up with, it could have been a great rifle.



But it had too many compromises made by the army to ever be really effective. HK did a heck of a job trying to satisfy the bureaucrats, but in the end it was a doomed project.

 

[Leibermuster]

You're right - I own three Cooeys, an SKS, and Hi-point .45.

You're a Kool-aid drinker - the faster you admit that, the better off you'll be. HK makes EVERYTHING the best. It's HK or nothing. All else is poo. I get it. Fine. Give your head a shake.

I don't think you want to get into a 'who owns what' pissing contest - you'll lose.

Listen here pal, you can come on this forum,and offer no points or facts and think your high and mighty, then there something wrong here. Your not productive to this discussion, I own other types of firearms from dozen of other manufactures! The only one that has been drinking Kool aid is your self bud, the anti-Hk Kool aid. So take your useless responses, and keep them!

So Give your own head a shake NUCKLEHEAD!

 

[KevinB]

XM-8 came out of the direct fire subsystem of the ill fated OICW
Its a repacked G36, it was unfortunately given very little thought and tossed together, the PCAP's was a prime example, it was later refined, and performed better than any other competitor in the desert testing.

However it does not do well in arctic testing, something it shares with the G36.


A caseless or casetelescoping cartridge should be the driving wagon for a future weapon system.

 

[Leibermuster]

A caseless or casetelescoping cartridge should be the driving wagon for a future weapon system.

I agree, but many said one of the underlining issues with the cancellation of the G11 was that the ammunition manufactures did not want to produce a new round yet, and preferred the older way instead, something to do with profitability.

Have you herd the same thing kevinB?

 

[KevinB]

G11 K2 was in operational testing, the decision to cancel the program was about German unification and the financial cost of what re-arming with that weapon and ammunition would have cost and they determined it was their Avro Arrow and scrapped it and destroyed the samples but for one or two.

Its about the only weapon that we dont have in the Stoner Museum.

The G11 was way ahead of any other design still to this day...

Hk has some of the best engineers in the world, sadly they don't always take end user feedback, as their Hk45 could have been awesome, but is good.

The Hk21/23 is a way better LMG than the M249 - but they did not take the feedback to make it a better weapon platform, and KAC can only make so many rails....

 

[eigenvector]

HK does things the HK way, regardless of what anyone else says, needs or wants.

This is both their strength and their weakness.

 

[mudgunner49]

After firing over 4 straight 100 round dual drum C-mags one after another, on fully automatic(correction it was over 5/100 round C-Mags), any other rifle would have a catastrophic failure! Basically meaning this rifle was the one that got away, the US should have bought it. The only reason i could say that would prevent it from being purchased was the fact of the possibility of moving to another round, which I don't see the reason we will, or couldn't change on the XM8 anyways.

there has been many false reason floating around the web that are myths about this rifles, so there was really no good reason to say it was not cracked up to what everyone thought it was. The XM8 in my opinion was truly a 21st century rifle.

You base this on???? I have seen multiple 30 rd mags fired on FA thru C7/C8 at least equalling 500 rds per weapon in short order, and none of them failed. If you've done so and seen failures I expect pictures not speculation...

 

[Mike Oxbig]

Stole this bit from the net. Seems the gun was more reliable than any other in its class.

In the Fall of 2007 the XM8 was compared to other firearms in a 'dust test.' [1] The competition was based on two previous tests that were conducted in Summer 2006 and Summer 2007 before the latest test in the Fall of 2007. In the Summer 2007 test, M16 rifles and M4 carbines recorded a total of 307 stoppages. In the Fall 2007 test, the XM8 recorded only 127 stoppages in 60,000 total rounds while the M4 carbine had 882. The FN SCAR had 226 stoppages and the HK416 had 233. The difference between the XM8, HK416, and FN SCAR was not statistically significant when correcting for the less reliable STANAG magazine. [2] However, the discrepancy of 575 stoppages between the Summer and Fall 2007 tests of the M4 had Army officials looking into possible causes for the change such as different officials, seasons, and inadequate sample pool size but have stated that the conditions of the test were ostensibly the same. The Army countered the controversy surrounding the M4 by stating, in essence, that troops are generally satisfied with the M4.
Another reason for the XM8's cancellation was that when it was tested with it's LMG (LightMachineGun) variant, it couldn't withstand the HK416 or the FN SCAR with the "Over Heating Test".

 

[Leibermuster]

You base this on???? I have seen multiple 30 rd mags fired on FA thru C7/C8 at least equalling 500 rds per weapon in short order, and none of them failed. If you've done so and seen failures I expect pictures not speculation...

C7/8 going straight full auto like that in 5 straight dual c-100 mags, I must say from my experience I would not try that unless in a life threatening situation, this particular XM8 was put through a lot previous to that also. Even our C9 barrel would melt going through that much ammo in such a short order! I can't remember for sure but this was on the short barrel model of the XM8 as well.

Remembered also that theirs no extra seconds of cooling between mag changes here like the what your mentioning.
I remember their was a video on youtube showing this as well, some years ago.
All see if i can find it!

 

[Seyek]

I'm reasonably confident that a C9 barrel wouldn't suffer after 500 rounds in short order. At least with my experiences with C9s anyways. As for being able to go 24k rounds without cleaning, it means nothing if as KevB said it doesn't handle cold-weather conditions well. Also, who lets their weapon go 24k rounds without cleaning? It really isn't much of chore to crack open a C7, give it a wipe and some lube every so often. The mag changes and charging handle of the AR platform alone are worth it to me. Not to mention the better optics mounting.

With that said, if semi XM8s were made for civilian sale at a decent price, I'd be happy to buy one. Knowing H&K however, I imagine it would be well over 2k if not 3k for one though.

 

[canucklehead]

Listen here pal, you can come on this forum,and offer no points or facts and think your high and mighty, then there something wrong here. Your not productive to this discussion, I own other types of firearms from dozen of other manufactures! The only one that has been drinking Kool aid is your self bud, the anti-Hk Kool aid. So take your useless responses, and keep them!

So Give your own head a shake NUCKLEHEAD!

Hmmm... weak response, but whatever. I've owned a few HK's (only one right now) - they make nice stuff. But just because it says 'HK' on the side, doesn't instantly make it the pinnacle of design and the ultimate firearm.

But don't let reason get in the way of your HK bag-licking. The XM8 rules ALL - I'm sure you know from personal experience with thousands of rounds through many different systems and can fairly judge the superiority of the XM8.

 

[mudgunner49]

C7/8 going straight full auto like that in 5 straight dual c-100 mags, I must say from my experience I would not try that unless in a life threatening situation, this particular XM8 was put through a lot previous to that also. 1. Even our C9 barrel would melt going through that much ammo in such a short order! I can't remember for sure but this was on the short barrel model of the XM8 as well.

Remembered also that theirs 2. no extra seconds of cooling between mag changes here like the what your mentioning.
I remember their was a video on youtube showing this as well, some years ago.
All see if i can find it!

1. Ummmm - no it wouldn't melt - in spite of the fact that the drill is (or at least was) to change barrels after a belt, we have run 3 x 200 rd belts thru one with no ill effect and no discernible effect on practical accuracy;

2. How much actual cooling takes place in the 1.5.2 seconds that it takes to change mags???


blake

 

[koalorka]

Even our C9 barrel would melt going through that much ammo in such a short order! I can't remember for sure but this was on the short barrel model of the XM8 as well.

Remembered also that theirs no extra seconds of cooling between mag changes here like the what your mentioning.
I remember their was a video on youtube showing this as well, some years ago.
All see if i can find it!

The Minimi is an open bolt gun with a heavy-profile barrel and massive trunnion. It has a much greater heat capacity and greater cooling potential on account of the open bolt operation (the reciprocating bolt serves as a piston, pushing air through the barrel with each shot). There is also no cook-off risk with an open bolt gun.

It's like you're going off a list of common gun myths and usual misinformation...

 

[mr_trout]

G11 K2 was in operational testing, the decision to cancel the program was about German unification and the financial cost of what re-arming with that weapon and ammunition would have cost and they determined it was their Avro Arrow and scrapped it and destroyed the samples but for one or two.

Its about the only weapon that we dont have in the Stoner Museum.

The G11 was way ahead of any other design still to this day...

The G11 was indeed a ###y rifle. The only problem was that you needed a swiss watchmaker to service it:

 

[Leibermuster]

1. Ummmm - no it wouldn't melt - in spite of the fact that the drill is (or at least was) to change barrels after a belt, we have run 3 x 200 rd belts thru one with no ill effect and no discernible effect on practical accuracy;

2. How much actual cooling takes place in the 1.5.2 seconds that it takes to change mags???


blake

But that is not one after the other on straight full auto, and I don't mean firing the C9 in burst fire either the way you should generally speaking. The most i have fired straight with a C9 when fooling around was 2 straight 200 round belts 1 after the other on full auto, and the barrels was practically warping. It was also red as hell naturally, this was done in my younger days, which was not doing the DND any service.

But yes , expending a lot of ammo through her is what it's made to do, and it does a great job.

But for an XM8/Assault rifle, do that on C7 and your going to have a few problems

But back to the

 

[Leibermuster]

I'm reasonably confident that a C9 barrel wouldn't suffer after 500 rounds in short order. At least with my experiences with C9s anyways. As for being able to go 24k rounds without cleaning, it means nothing if as KevB said it doesn't handle cold-weather conditions well. Also, who lets their weapon go 24k rounds without cleaning? It really isn't much of chore to crack open a C7, give it a wipe and some lube every so often. The mag changes and charging handle of the AR platform alone are worth it to me. Not to mention the better optics mounting.

With that said, if semi XM8s were made for civilian sale at a decent price, I'd be happy to buy one. Knowing H&K however, I imagine it would be well over 2k if not 3k for one though.

Your talking about 16 1/3 mag changes to get their, You do that on C7 in your in trouble.