Brasso my asso

An astute engineer would have been paying better attention in class when brass cleaning/tumbling with Brasso was under discussion, the long held concerns re: Brasso are twofold, a) Ammonia weakening brass b) using any abrasive on cases that would get into sizing die and damage(score) the inside finish of dies (over time). I don't use abrasives anyways so I don't know about any of these long held theories.
 
ben hunchak said:
An astute engineer would have been paying better attention in class when brass cleaning/tumbling with Brasso was under discussion, the long held concerns re: Brasso are twofold, a) Ammonia weakening brass b) using any abrasive on cases that would get into sizing die and damage(score) the inside finish of dies (over time). I don't use abrasives anyways so I don't know about any of these long held theories.
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Now there's a separate issue.
In my Opinion
I think you'd be looking at a lifetime of use before the abrasives contained in the tiny amount of Brasso we're dealing with here would have any effect on dies. If even then.
Particularly if they are inspected, and wiped down, as any good reloader would do, even without abrasives, before putting the cases in the dies.

Also, dies being much stronger, and harder than brass, Brasso isn't gonna do much to them, even full strength.
 
good post john y cannuck

there are a few problem,s though:

#5 you took an already diluted concentration af ammonium hydroxide and diluted it even further. What you started with would have been probably 10% ammonium hydroxide!!! not 100% Pure ammonia cant exist as a liquid with out being refrigerated to -35oC or under a pressure of 100psi ammonium hydroxide is ammonia in water!!!! and the water can only absorb so much ammonia before it reaches saturation. i will find what the max concentration is when i return from holidays. It should also be noted that there are limits set by the Canadian safety council as to how much ammonia a product sold in Canada can even contain. I think it is around 35% max!!!! I will find this when I return also!!

I work as a power engineer at a facility that makes ammonia, if we have a leak in a pump that is moving a solution containing even 25% ammonia we have to wear acid gas masks!!!!!!! if we are in a situation were we could have a leak with anything containing more than 50% ammonia we have to wear a self contained breathing apparatus!!!!!! because an acid gas mask wont even stop the ammonia!!!!!

although your ammonium hydroxide smells very badly and makes it hard to breath it is such a small concentration and you are releasing such a tiny amount of ammonia vapour it would hardly even be measurable.

This is a good test even though you only have very very small ammonium hydroxide concentrations!! it will serve to prove what ammonia in small concentrations will do to brass. Your test #6 though it is only probably 10% in reality should show some signs of damaging the brass because like we already know ammonia does damage brass.

Keep in mind when doing this test that you have the brass and ammonia containing solutions in a plastic bag stopping the water and ammonia from evaporating!!!! This is not like in a tumbler were the ammonia and water can evaporate!!! Also you are exposing the brass to 100% of the product, this will not be like in a tumbler were you have 4 or so teaspoons dispersed in a large amount of walnut or other media.

That point being made. If you can not get BRASSO to damage brass when you are exposing it to pure BRASSO in a sealed container were the ammonia and water can not evaporate than you will never damage it in a tumbler!
 
It will be very interesting to hear how the test is progressing when i return next weak from holidays. Thanks for doing this experiment john y cannuck. Hats off to you!!! try to keep the household ammonia out of your eyes it wont feel great!!!!
 
Update of test started in post #58
Time 1Hr 15 mins
no apparent major changes.
The pure ammonia case seems to be shiniest the Vinegar/salt/water case looks to be the cleanest, but no longer is as shiny as the rest.
The Brasso case, of course cannot be seen.
Control looks great! :)
 
ben hunchak said:
An astute engineer would have been paying better attention in class when brass cleaning/tumbling with Brasso was under discussion, the long held concerns re: Brasso are twofold, a) Ammonia weakening brass b) using any abrasive on cases that would get into sizing die and damage(score) the inside finish of dies (over time). I don't use abrasives anyways so I don't know about any of these long held theories.
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think that as a power engineer in school we sat around talking about what using ammonia containing products will do when we are cleaning brass!!! not ****ing likely!!!!!!!!!! Pretty sure we had bigger issues to discuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You cant be serious with this post!!!!!! Ammonia dosent weaken brass! it completely destroys it, brakes it down and carries it away!!! that is why you cant use brass valves in any piping system that has ammonia in it!!!!! that is why all our piping and valves at work are stainless steel!!!!!! that is why if you have an ammonia refrigeration system and you use a brass valve it will last about 2 hours before the valve has been eaten away almost entirely.

I will say this one last time for anyone who has not got the point yet!!!!!!! we already know ammonia harms brass!!!!!!!!!

The question is weather there is enough ammonia in the BRASSO to harm anything or if the ammonia and water evaporate and there is nothing left behind anyways!!!!!!!!! got that yet!!!!!!!!!!
 
abrasive getting into you die's how do you clean all burnt powder and carbon out of your brass with out using some sort of abrasive????? Not cleaning that stuff out properly will do just as much damage as any abrasive in there. Plus i don't pour BRASSO into the case than throw it in the die!!!! as if there is enough dust or anything at all left in the piece of brass to damage any die!!!!!! Blow it out quickly if your that concerned!!!!!!!!

give me a brake!!!!!!
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Update of test started in post #58
Time 1Hr 15 mins
no apparent major changes.
The pure ammonia case seems to be shiniest the Vinegar/salt/water case looks to be the cleanest, but no longer is as shiny as the rest.
The Brasso case, of course cannot be seen.
Control looks great! :)
Click to expand...

You do not have pure ammonia!!!! read my post #63
 
.50BMG said:
good post john y cannuck

there are a few problem,s though:

#5 you took an already diluted concentration af ammonium hydroxide and diluted it even further. What you started with would have been probably 10% ammonium hydroxide!!! not 100% Pure ammonia cant exist as a liquid with out being refrigerated to -35oC or under a pressure of 100psi ammonium hydroxide is ammonia in water!!!! and the water can only absorb so much ammonia before it reaches saturation. i will find what the max concentration is when i return from holidays. It should also be noted that there are limits set by the Canadian safety council as to how much ammonia a product sold in Canada can even contain. I think it is around 35% max!!!! I will find this when I return also!!
Click to expand...
As I said, "as strong as I can get"
 
.50BMG said:
good post john y cannuck

Keep in mind when doing this test that you have the brass and ammonia containing solutions in a plastic bag stopping the water and ammonia from evaporating!!!! This is not like in a tumbler were the ammonia and water can evaporate!!! Also you are exposing the brass to 100% of the product, this will not be like in a tumbler were you have 4 or so teaspoons dispersed in a large amount of walnut or other media.

That point being made. If you can not get BRASSO to damage brass when you are exposing it to pure BRASSO in a sealed container were the ammonia and water can not evaporate than you will never damage it in a tumbler!
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My point exactly. I'm keeping the ammonia contained for a maximum exposure test.
(Also keeps wife happy)
 
2Hr approximate update.

No noted change in brass appearance, however.....

I did not mention that the primer pockets were not cleaned in any way. Only flash hole cleared of media.
Development. There is a stain leading down from the flash holes of the two Ammonia (10% and Pure) samples. Apparently, the flash hole is being cleaned to some extent.
 
.50BMG said:
Do you honestly think that as a power engineer in school we sat around talking about what using ammonia containing products will do when we are cleaning brass!!! not ****ing likely!!!!!!!!!! Pretty sure we had bigger issues to discuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You cant be serious with this post!!!!!! Ammonia dosent weaken brass! it completely destroys it, brakes it down and carries it away!!! that is why you cant use brass valves in any piping system that has ammonia in it!!!!! that is why all our piping and valves at work are stainless steel!!!!!! that is why if you have an ammonia refrigeration system and you use a brass valve it will last about 2 hours before the valve has been eaten away almost entirely.

I will say this one last time for anyone who has not got the point yet!!!!!!! we already know ammonia harms brass!!!!!!!!!

The question is weather there is enough ammonia in the BRASSO to harm anything or if the ammonia and water evaporate and there is nothing left behind anyways!!!!!!!!! got that yet!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

50BMG you drink way too much coffee.
Settle down man, he's only stating an opinion.
Lots of folks read only the starting post and comment on it, not the entire thread.
No sense getting folks all fired up.
Suggestion, put a note in the thread title like "update: Brasso test, post #__"
 
I was curious and looked up Brasso, it contains 2-3 % ammonium hydroxide.

One thing that JYC might also do, is see if there are tensile strength changes to the brass. A simple way is to just try and stretch the case apart at the case mouth. Does it just deform (stretch) or does it crack? This IS what we are looking for, isn't it?
 
SandRoad said:
I was curious and looked up Brasso, it contains 2-3 % ammonium hydroxide.

One thing that JYC might also do, is see if there are tensile strength changes to the brass. A simple way is to just try and stretch the case apart at the case mouth. Does it just deform (stretch) or does it crack? This IS what we are looking for, isn't it?
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I could try resizing back down to 38-40, and then up to 44-40.
This brass is old, just to make a point in the test. So don't expect miracles.
This batch has seen at least 20 firings, probably more likely 30. Some necks currently have small cracks.
I have no other method of 'stretching'
None of the cases are beyond firing, and if there are no really bad signs, I will use them.

(For the newbie, the 44-40 is a low pressure cartridge at SAAMI levels. It's not wise to use brass with cracked necks at higher pressure levels.)
 
SandRoad said:
I was curious and looked up Brasso, it contains 2-3 % ammonium hydroxide.

One thing that JYC might also do, is see if there are tensile strength changes to the brass. A simple way is to just try and stretch the case apart at the case mouth. Does it just deform (stretch) or does it crack? This IS what we are looking for, isn't it?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think a change in tensile strength would be applicable in this application. IF the brass was highly porous as say in a sintered bronze bushing where a chemical reaction with considerably more metal occurs, them possibly.

A few things that would affect a change the in tensile strength of the metal would be something that penetrates all the material such as a heat application or work hardening from repeated working of the metal. The polishing and or cleaning in a material such as crushed walnut shell with a small amount of brasso merely affects the surface of the brass.
 
Wow John Y you have really gotten into this...But which example got the fresh ground pepper on it?:D

I like shiny brass so I just leave the brass in the tumbler overnight, using walnut media. Walnut is so cheap, lasts for a long time, works well and is readily available at the local pet store.

My brass looks like it is brand new after tumbling overnight. I once forgot abotu the tumbler for a week. That brass was SHINY!:)
 
Gatehouse said:
Wow John Y you have really gotten into this...But which example got the fresh ground pepper on it?:D

I like shiny brass so I just leave the brass in the tumbler overnight, using walnut media. Walnut is so cheap, lasts for a long time, works well and is readily available at the local pet store.

My brass looks like it is brand new after tumbling overnight. I once forgot abotu the tumbler for a week. That brass was SHINY!:)
Click to expand...

Well, you sure gave your occupation away. Nobody else would notice the grinder.
When I was using corncob, I used to add a lot of stuff to stretch it out. I use walnut now, and it does last a lot longer.
I'm just doing this for the troops. Don't need it myself.
 
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