Can Anyone Confirm the use of M1A1 Thompson on the Eastern Front?

skirsons

skirsons

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I haven't been able to dig up any info. The best I can find is that they were supplied to the Soviet Union as standard equipment on the M3, but they weren't issued as .45ACP was scarce there.

I heard from a fellow CGNer at a gun show that his friend was digging up Thompsons in Kurland (Latvia) at the former site of the Kurland battle. With the number of folks who mistook my PPSH for a Thompson at the gunshow I wonder if his friend is actually digging them up rather than Thompsons.

-Steve
 
These guys had them:
untitled.jpg
 
That may be a souvenir from the wrecked tank. It may have been picked up for "evaluation purposes". My now deceased uncle told me that in Africa they weren't allowed to use and axis issue weapons for any other purposes and picking them up as souvenirs was not only frowned upon but meant you had to carry that much more weight around with you. He also said they quite frequently tried out captured weapons of all sorts to get an estimation of what they were up against beforehand.
I have seen lots of pics of axis troops with captured weapons, especially 91/30 snipers, PPSH and svt40 rifles. There are even several pics of axis troops being issued captured Russian built tanks.
 
Sherman tanks sent to the Soviets under the Lend-Lease program came equipped with Thompson's. Most of these Thompson ended up in Ukrainian Arms depots after the War, pratically in unissued condition. A British dealer has been importing these from Ukraine as cut-up parts Kits into the USA for the last few years.
 
A have a book with photos showing German armoured train crews armed with 1928 tommies captured from the Brits

most probably came from North Africa and Dunkirk

The Germans had no issues with reusing captured weapons even early on in zee var
 
The last responses are not answering the question. I'm only talking about the Eastern front. I know about the Western Front. It makes sense that they would appear there. The rules of captured weapons were also different on the Eastern front - use what you find!

I do know that there were lots of unisssued Thompsons put in depots - but I wonder if these reports from Kurland are true (and I doubt they are) - that they were used on the Eastern Front. It would be a contradiction to current scholarship on the subject.
 
SKIRSONS On Page 16 of thread A Little Bit Of Dug Relics, Latvian author said he has "found Tommy, Colt 1911, 30 and 50 Brownings." He also mentions somewhere about some conversions to Soviet calibres and some foriegn weapons in original cals. Also he has dug up Sherman tanks, US food cans, Esso Motor Oil etc.
 
The Queens Medalist 86 said:
SKIRSONS On Page 16 of thread A Little Bit Of Dug Relics, Latvian author said he has "found Tommy, Colt 1911, 30 and 50 Brownings." He also mentions somewhere about some conversions to Soviet calibres and some foriegn weapons in original cals. Also he has dug up Sherman tanks, US food cans, Esso Motor Oil etc.
Click to expand...

Oh so there's no pics of them. I kind of wonder though. I suppose he's identified lots of obscure and odd guns you wouldn't expect to find there -so maybe he's right. But I won't believe it until I see it! PPSHs are often called Tommy guns, even by the Germans, so the name is kind of like Kleenex - it denotes all SMGs and not just Thompsons.

Edit: this is the post by the digger. I think he probably knows what he's talking about from his description of finding .45ACP:

"Yep you are right about mauser , but this item is not hand made and it has it's own purpose...
About lend lease firearms - here can be found original 30 \ 50 cal ammunition as well as .45 ACP , tommy , colt 1911 , brownings 30 and 50 cal all these items can be found in Courland pocket ... I have heard about findings of german conversion russian DP 27 to 7.92 mauser caliber and PPSH 41 to 9 mm Para."

Courland = Kurland = Kurzeme
 
Did the Soviets have some the answer is Yes, were they Front Line weapons and issued on a regular basis the answer is No.
 
skirsons said:
Oh so there's no pics of them. I kind of wonder though. I suppose he's identified lots of obscure and odd guns you wouldn't expect to find there -so maybe he's right. But I won't believe it until I see it! PPSHs are often called Tommy guns, even by the Germans, so the name is kind of like Kleenex - it denotes all SMGs and not just Thompsons.

Edit: this is the post by the digger. I think he probably knows what he's talking about from his description of finding .45ACP:

"Yep you are right about mauser , but this item is not hand made and it has it's own purpose...
About lend lease firearms - here can be found original 30 \ 50 cal ammunition as well as .45 ACP , tommy , colt 1911 , brownings 30 and 50 cal all these items can be found in Courland pocket ... I have heard about findings of german conversion russian DP 27 to 7.92 mauser caliber and PPSH 41 to 9 mm Para."

Courland = Kurland = Kurzeme
Click to expand...

And the Americans never landed on the moon ether !
LOL
 
#1bcshooter said:
And the Americans never landed on the moon ether !
LOL
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure there's pictures of that. The current scholarship on Soviet Thompsons, at the moment, was that .45ACP was so rare the weapons were not issued at all. If I saw pictures of the "Tommy guns" and they weren't PPSHs, then it would add some credibility. Especially since "Tommy gun" can mean PPSH, MP-38, etc. to many folks (even gun enthusiasts).
 
JP said:
Did the Soviets have some the answer is Yes, were they Front Line weapons and issued on a regular basis the answer is No.
Click to expand...

This is what I had believed before; however, with the one difference that it was argued they weren't issued AT ALL. This would make sense because of the scarcity of .45ACP. Perhaps a supply was found? Shipped in? Who knows, but it would be a new page in the Thompson story if there was confirmed use on the Eastern Front.
 
skirsons said:
I'm pretty sure there's pictures of that. The current scholarship on Soviet Thompsons, at the moment, was that .45ACP was so rare the weapons were not issued at all. If I saw pictures of the "Tommy guns" and they weren't PPSHs, then it would add some credibility. Especially since "Tommy gun" can mean PPSH, MP-38, etc. to many folks (even gun enthusiasts).
Click to expand...

I know the Chinese Nationalist had Thompson's converted from 45acp
But i think it was after the war
(Taiwan)
 
Last time I was at Chapters they had a glossy picture book on Soviet WWII armour. Each design was shown in photos, colour plates and captioned. There was a whole chapter (or annex) on Lend Lease vehicles and license built copies. Ford 2-wheel drive cars, jeeps, trucks, M3 scout cars, M3 halftracks, Shermans, Grants, Valentines (almost all the ones ever made in Canada), aircraft - not the absolute first rank models but good enough to keep the Germans tied up.
 
M4 Sherman tanks were furnished to the USSR in considerable numbers as war aid.The Sherman was issued with Thompson SMGs as installed equipment/checklist/EIS,so presumably they were sent to Russia as a complete set.
Korea vets who I served with mentioned being issued various vehicles from US theatre stocks in Korea that came with M3 grease Guns as on-board equipment.
The Russian T54/T55/T62 tanks came with a Tokarev pistol installed under the driver's seat.I checked a number of knocked out ones in the Sinai and Golan heights back in the '70s in the hope of finding one,but no luck.
 
#1bcshooter said:
I know the Chinese Nationalist had Thompson's converted from 45acp
But i think it was after the war
(Taiwan)
Click to expand...

I wonder if there was any conversion done to other calibers. One would think that would be documented. Since the digger reports finding ammo there must have been a supply.
 
bearhunter said:
That may be a souvenir from the wrecked tank. It may have been picked up for "evaluation purposes". My now deceased uncle told me that in Africa they weren't allowed to use and axis issue weapons for any other purposes and picking them up as souvenirs was not only frowned upon but meant you had to carry that much more weight around with you. He also said they quite frequently tried out captured weapons of all sorts to get an estimation of what they were up against beforehand.
I have seen lots of pics of axis troops with captured weapons, especially 91/30 snipers, PPSH and svt40 rifles. There are even several pics of axis troops being issued captured Russian built tanks.
Click to expand...

Your Uncle's story is the opposite of mine.

I worked with a Canadian Vet back in the 80's who was everywhere from England to North Africa, came back without a scratch. He was issued a Thompson. But, when he picked up his first battlefield "Schmeisser" or MP38 or MP40, he carried that and preferred it over the Thompson. He had and used both.

I guess it can go either way.
 
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