Vimy

What are you suggesting exactly? Canada did not tolerate the casualties in 1916, 1917 if you knew your history you'd know we had to draft men, recruitment campaigns were horrendously unsuccessful and that desertion in Canada was a serious problem. In truth the bulk of our troops were made up of landless first generation immigrants. Arrests for failure to comply with conscription were mostly restricted to the poor and Irish even though pretty much everyone refused to show up. The average joe in 1917 knew exactly what was waiting for them in europe.

I can think of many more useful tasks for Canada's best and bravest then to die in some s**thole. Does that make me a coward as well? It sure does'nt make any of the combat vetrans that I know cowards when they have that opinion.

So tell us what goal do you figure is worth the lives of the men and women who can contribute most to our communities and families?

I certainly agree with all of what you say, but why are you confusing my dig at taliban jack as being disrespectfull of our vetran's sacrifices:confused:
I've stood on the hilltop in northern France where my granfather was wounded in 1918 and bawled my eyes out as I looked at the gravemarkers of the members of his machinegun company who were killed on that day. These were the men that he ate with, trained with, slept with and almost died with on that day, and I know that none of them wanted to be there, but most of them were there because they felt a sense of duty to this country.
Your ##### should be with the politicians that sent them there.
 
What is also stunning is the relative small territory over which these battles were fought (Argonne, Chemin-des-Dames, Verdun, Courcelette, etc) and the sheer numbers of people sent there; with the constant shelling from each sides, it must have looked like a meat grinder.
In Flanders,10 000 dead the first attack on Paaschendaele and more the following day... and nobody said anything... they just kept on sending troops with the same tactics.
O tempora, O mores...
PP.

Many British and Canadian leaders said lots about the tactics and they did change, it just didn't happen over night. If they haden't, the Allies would certainly not have won WWI. Everything evolved from logistics to co-ordination to the basic structure of the infantry platoon on a raid (very modern actually where every soldier knew his task and the task of others in the platoon. Raids were practiced. Gone were the days of every man a rifleman with marching kit on their back. Now they were specialized: Lewis gunners, grenaders,etc. Raids and attacks were very different by 1917. The Canadians were good at it and they were taught by the British.
Thing was the Germans were evolving too and they were as good if not better in the new tactics of offense as the Canadians/British and were better in the defense.

Do a Google search, there's lots out there on the subject. For a couple of good books try:
1) Surviving Trench Warfare: Technology and the Canadian Corps, 1914-1918 (Bill Rawling)
2) Victory at Vimy (Ted Barris) (at least as it applies to that specific battle)
3) The Roots of Blitzkrieg (James Corum) (1st chapter talks about German strategic and tactical development during WWI)

Cheers,

O'Kelly's Boys
 
I visited Vimy 2 years ago and came away terribly disappointed. We had just been at Ypres and taken a tour there with a very knowledgeable Brit, an ex-soldier with a son in Iraq. That guy knew his stuff! Our experience in Vimy was the opposite. The tour guieds were two teenage girls from New Brunswick and Ontario, part of a student program that takes University students to France to live an work. Frankly, it was disgraceful. Their knowledge was extremely limited and seemed only to be as deep as the short training they had. They had no knowledge nor apparent interest in things military, and used really inappropriate language in describing the events they. They told our group that Canadian officers "laughed and giggled" in the mess, that after the battle many men were "sad" and told us that the Black Watch had lead the attack. That last thing was interesting because most of the tour were Brits and they must have thought that their Black Watch was there, the tour guides didn't know there was another Black Watch, the Canadian Highland Regiment as opposed to the Brit Black Watch. Further, the displays in the very small building were generic and not at all useful to understanding Vimy, and the signage on site was almost nonexistent. To me, the Vimy site deserves more than summer students on a French piss up, to be blunt, and I wrote my MP as much. This site desreves professional guides with real knowledge and perhaps military experience, or at least students from the Military College and not the bimbettes chosen mostly because they are bilingual.


I remember reading your letter - I used to work in the Canada Remembers section of Veterans Affairs. And I have to say I completely agree with you.
 
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